Well, I don't drink gin... so this will have to do.

Infesting ad hominem response.

...ad hominem... — Paine

Is it an ad hom when the man is I?

'Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me----'

What have you to offer?

You are going to make do without truth? Go on, then; you first.

I'll watch from here. Should be worth a laugh. — Banno

:grin:

We need to think outside the box. Truth is priceless for it can make the difference between life and death; however if survival is our #1 priority, and evolution say it is, truth is just a means towards that end. Lies have value too (gennaion pseudos, pious fiction, white lies) and post-truth is probably just a recognition of this simple fact.

The brain is designed for survival. Truth and survival are two entirely different things. — Brian Greene

Nice. I sit here sipping my glass of oily Victory gin whilst watching a washer woman through my window who is at least a meter across at the hips.

The idea of post-truth is so ambiguous because it can just be an excuse for the acceptance of falsity and dishonesty. — Jack Cummins

I don't see the idea of post-truth as ambiguous, but rather I see it as incoherent. Nietzsche somewhere said that thinking what enhances the richness of life is more important than thinking what is true. They don't need to be the same; some truths may be debilitating.

In any case this idea of life-enhancement has nothing to do with so-called "post-truth". The thing about truth is that in all but the most prosaic cases we don't know what is true, but only what seems most plausible in light of what we already believe.

Keeping the aspidistra flying...!

I've been looking for an aspidistra for years. We had one for the first few years of our marriage, but left it behind when we moved. Now all you can get are bloody peace lilies. The Proles are comparatively free, doublethink being an affliction of those who think.

Have you noticed

Agent Smith — Agent Smith

's liking for latin? Reminiscent of Nadsat, from an alternate dystopia.

I used to incorporate Aspidistra in some of my garden designs...they used to be readily available from wholesale nurseries. Now the "Cast Iron Plant" seems to be out of fashion, but I have no doubt there are many gardens that still sport them. They look awful if they get more than a modicum of sunlight, so be careful where you plant them if outdoors. I figured that since they must yet feature in many gardens, they must still be available privately, so I searched and bingo:
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-home-garden/nsw/aspidistra+plants/k0c18397l3008839
so if you are serious about acquiring one, then you can do so easily...

s liking for latin? Reminiscent of Nadsat, from an alternate dystopia. — Banno

:smile: I'm learning Latin (phrases).

I used to incorporate Aspidistra in some of my garden designs...they used to be readily available from wholesale nurseries. Now the "Cast Iron Plant" seems to be out of fashion, but I have no doubt there are many gardens that still sport them. — Janus

It's funny how plants come in and out of fashion. I remember when the rubber tree (ficus elastica) was everywhere in the 1970's. It vanished for decades and suddenly came back (here anyway) as a kind of retro-chic-artisanal-hipster-indoor-irony-decoration.

It's funny how plants come in and out of fashion. I remember when the rubber tree (ficus elastica) was everywhere in the 1970's. It vanished for decades and suddenly came back (here anyway) as a kind of retro-chic-artisanal-hipster-indoor-irony-decoration. — Tom Storm

The disasters happen when they get too big for indoors and people put them outside in their pots near the house and forget about them. They transform into a giant tree with roots than can lift the footings and crack brick walls. Over the time I was operating as a landscaper I was contracted to remove a few different kinds of figs that had transcended the indoor environment.

"A kind of retro-chic-artisanal-hipster-indoor-irony-decoration" I like it! :lol:

thanks, but it's more an I'd buy-it-if-I saw-it kind of thing. I don't trust Gumtree, and my usual more reliable suppliers - Diggers, local folk and so on - never seem to stock it.

many gardens that still sport them — Janus

Keep the aspidistra flying!

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200021.txt

Another evening wasted. Hours, days, years slipping by. Night after night, always the same. The lonely room, the womanless bed; dust, cigarette ash, the aspidistra leaves. — Orwell

Soporific online forums...?

Where one can convince oneself that there is no truth.

Is that the fate of our dear friends, ↪Agent Smith and ↪Jack Cummins? — Banno

@Jack Cummins

:lol: I'm sure you've heard of (hyperbolic) skepticism. Do we really know any truths? You might wanna refresh your memory on the the Doubting Thomas brigade. Start with Agrippa's trilemma. Truth(s)!? Pfft. :snicker:

Post-truth is simply the 20^th century avatar of (doubting) Thomas the Apostle, dear friend of Jesus who said ...

Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

The Second Coming is just around the corner, guys and gals (if any)!

Do we really know any truths? — Agent Smith

It's true that you can read and write sentences in English.

It's true that you can read and write sentences in English. — Banno

Ok! You got me! :smile:

I have just woken up and plan to read the thread later today but I just noticed your comment 'the Second Coming is around the corner' and I am relating a really unnerving dream which I had a week ago about the end of the world. In the dream everything went dark. Then, a huge cavern opened up and the cavern was filled with dead bodies. When I told my dream to someone the other day he said, 'That might be just how it will be.'

The reason why I think that this is relevant to the thread is because fear of the end of the world has been an ongoing fear for centuries, especially with the millennium. However, at this present time there is so much fear with the current Russian situation. On my phone, I see so much talk of whether this is going to be world wide nuclear war. I probably had the dream because I have always worried about the end of the world based on religious upbringing.

Reflecting on the underlying fear and news reports in the media, I am wondering how 'truth', fantasy, and some 'post truths' come together in people' s thinking and what role do mythical ideas and fantasised projections have in influencing what happens in world events?

All I can say is there's a paradox: We all care for our children, willing to even lay down our lives for them and yet, we're least bothered about human-induced climate change which will kill 'em all. It just doesn't add up now does it Jack.

This, I suppose, is exactly what philosophers have been trying to fix over the past 2.5k years - inconsistency in our thinking.

I haven't brought any children into the world and I worry about the future of humanity. I am surprised that people who have children and grandchildren are not distraught, not that I am advocating antinatalism. If anything, superficial entertainment as an aspect of 'post-truth' may be a means of distraction from fear of nuclear threat and the impending climate change crisis. It may be that light entertainment is a way of escape attempts from 'truth' and even philosophy as 'language games' be a retreat from deeper thinking, especially about the future of humanity and the planet.

Perhaps, deep down in our subconscious, we all know what's gonna happen and all these attempts to forestall the inevitable is a mere formality we just perform to make ourselves feel better.

I agree with what you have said even though it is crossed out, like some borderline twighlight truth...

I have got to somewhere, so I will look at the thread tonight if it hasn't vanished in a puff of smoke, like an imaginary 'post-truth'.

I agree with what you have said even though it is crossed out, like some borderline twighlight truth...

I have got to somewhere, so I will look at the thread tonight if it hasn't vanished in a puff of smoke, like an imaginary 'post-truth'. — Jack Cummins

Stay safe Jack.

Maybe @Agent Smith and myself are ' post-truth' imaginary entities emerging in the surreal world of cyber language games, in a post-Wittenstein illusory wasteland, such as that which TS Eliot stumbled upon once upon a time.

I am still at home in grungy post- truth land because I was meant to be visiting new accommodation and I am waiting for the address to be sent to me by text. I live in a surreal world because my bed here is broken and I slide right down to the bottom and my original landlord has vanished somewhere in Pakistan. But, I try to keep a sense of humour as the only way of keeping safe in the face of absurdity.

Bonam fortunam.

Perhaps, one or both of us will create post romanticism as a new paradigm to challenge the flatllands of realism. Materialism is important, but not possibly the entire truth any more than idealism is. Sometimes, I hover on the brink of panpsychism, not just as a fanciful form of speculation but as a wider, all encompassing viewpoint. I may start a thread on that topic because this one may have gone as far as it may go and it is not as if I am really advocating post-truth, but understanding in a broken down world, a deeper search for 'truth' and absurdity, after existentialism, logical positivism and postmodernism.I are sure that many are satisfied with the ideas which they have but I am not, which is probably what keeps me starting threads...

There's a lot of ideas floating around in the ideaverse to start a discussion on. I for one will grab every opportunity to participate in your threads, if and when I can.

Just for anyone who is still interested in post-truth, in the form of fake news, on my phone yesterday I read that -2 degrees of Arctic weather was on it's way. Today, I have seen the news and there is no mention of this, so I am really wondering if the news which I saw was fake news. I won't buy a hot water bottle yet in September in the UK. But, as I don't have a television I do look to news on my phone as a basic source of updates on world events, travel and weather until I am out and about. I see fake news as a source of confusion where it exists and it leads to unnecessary uncertainty. I don't see it's fun appeal and it seems to be along the lines of hoax calls to the fire brigade and emergency services.

I am relating a really unnerving dream which I had a week ago about the end of the world. In the dream everything went dark. Then, a huge cavern opened up and the cavern was filled with dead bodies — Jack Cummins

In addition to world events , I think we tend to under-appreciate the effects that seasonal change has on our moods and dreams.
While Forum members Down Under are busy talking about sunny topics like plants and gardens, we in the northern hemisphere are observing the sun get dimmer, the days get darker, and the gardens decaying, while Dia de Los Muertos approaches.

Do we really know any truths?
— Agent Smith

It's true that you can read and write sentences in English — Banno

“The word ‘truth’ is simply a compliment paid to sentences seen to be paying their way.”( Richard Rorty)

I suggest if there is anything to tie together the myriad possible senses of that word ‘true’ it would be the achievement of a relative ‘recognizability’ or ‘assimilability’ among experiences. Propositional truth is an attempt to apply the broader notion of truth to a narrowly defined domain of linguistic contexts.

We know all sorts of truths: the urge to shout ‘true!’ can well up in us whenever a relative consistency emerges within a field of possibilities. The nature of this consistency will determine the sense of its being true.