So, why are you quoting drunks as useful sources, even if he's your brother? — Bitter Crank

My brother's comment was obviously futile. Is that to suggest, however, that all inebriated ideas are baseless? Or any other substance that alters cognition, for that matter?

But would there be less need as technology progresses exponentially, rendering many jobs in the tech field obsolete? — Christopher

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum.

I don't know what the consequences of more complex technology will be on the tech sector. Some work can be de-skilled, certainly. Creativity, on the other hand, isn't a strong-point of AI. I've seen a lot of technological change in the last 50 years and I don't see the end-point. (That doesn't mean that techno-development won't stall-out at some point.)

It would be very difficult to pick a field with a guaranteed future. What seems to be a good plan is to be as flexible as possible, both in one's work and in one's consumption habits. One hopes that flexibility will be a voluntary option, and not forced.

So, good luck and best wishes.

My brother's comment was obviously futile. Is that to suggest, however, that all inebriated ideas are baseless? Or any other substance that alters cognition, for that matter? — Christopher

Inebriated people, me among them, have ideas and they might be quite good ideas. The problem is in working out the details, expressing them clearly, and (often enough) remembering them in the morning.

So, why are you quoting drunks as useful sources, even if he's your brother? — Bitter Crank

Throw away line. Sorry about that. It seems like the fewer cognitive altering substances we are currently using the clearer our cognition is. That said, who wants to be sober all the time?

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum. — Bitter Crank

Thank you. I think?

What seems to be a good plan is to be as flexible as possible, both in one's work and in one's consumption habits. — Bitter Crank

Flexibility enables us to adapt. You're right, we don't know how the future will effect us, so I study a little in each field and not just my primary interests. This is the reason I want to spend more time on this forum learning from others. As much as I want to learn from other people's passions, I also want to develop real connections with people who share my passions.

Inebriated people, me among them, have ideas and they might be quite good ideas. The problem is in working out the details, expressing them clearly, and (often enough) remembering them in the morning. — Bitter Crank

Especially among writers. Stephen King drank and snorted so much coke that he doesn't remember writing several of his novels, including Cujo. Then there's that quote inaccurately attributed to Hemingway: "Write drunk. Edit sober."

That said, who wants to be sober all the time? — Bitter Crank

Right? And I'm sure many of us share the love for Mother Mary...Jane.

I don't think it takes an MFA to be a good writer. But an apprenticeship could help. I'm not even sure a BA is required. Lots and lots or reading various sources and comparing styles, use of language, etc. would avoid a college education. Off the top of my head. It's not quantum theory.

“Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them. There's many a best-seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher.”

― Flannery O'Connor

Only since the 80s'? — Christopher

I mention the 1980's because this was the era during which neo-liberalism bloomed via Thatcher and Reagan and really started the campaign to cut away at humanities departments in earnest, along with many notions of community life.

What interests you? — Christopher

These days I am mostly interested in the positions others have arrived at (on questions of meaning) and why. I am trying to get a better understanding of the idea of intersubjectivity and whether this is a useful concept.

Although they still grow from a tree. Why not compare? — Christopher

Mass and length can't be compared in a meaningful way? :chin:

Maybe your brother’s point was that you talk and talk and end up saying ‘nonsense’ as you put it. In that respect I would be inclined to agree that the ‘humanities’ (or at least vast sections of it) are often counterproductive in academia … I guess if some fruit still drops from the ‘humanities’ though it is a worthy field.

An example of exasperation would be someone reading your first sentence there and just automatically switching off. Start simple and then build up to more condensed sentences.

Note: My own writing style is not exacting concise! :D

I’ve met numerous people who have a degree and cannot write a paragraph. Writing, like reading, is an extremely difficult skill to master. For some reason too many people think education stops once you leave school without realising that ‘schooling’ is simply the first step on the never ending road of learning to teach yourself.

I explained how every academic discipline has the potential for further research and studies, so it advances our knowledge in each academic field. — Christopher

I think the problem with the humanities is the incessant push to say something new, something novel, something different. This leads, in most cases, to saying less and less about things that are of concern to human being and human life.

One irony is that there is a push in the classics to be "relevant", but this means to subject them to current political, social, and literary theories that are themselves motivated by the search for theoretical novelty and the need to demonstrate technical mastery of arcane terminology and insular, self-referential issues that are the flavor of the day.

I’ve met numerous people who have a degree and cannot write a paragraph. Writing, like reading, is an extremely difficult skill to master. For some reason too many people think education stops once you leave school without realising that ‘schooling’ is simply the first step on the never ending road of learning to teach yourself. — I like sushi

Wise words.

Formal education prepares one for life-long learning, IF one is willing to practice it.

think the problem with the humanities is the incessant push to say something new, something novel, something different. This leads, in most cases, to saying less and less about things that are of concern to human being and human life. — Fooloso4

Some people think that the humanities progress with research adding more and more knowledge. There are marginal gains, but the content has been available for analysis for a long time, and there is little ground that has not been plowed deeply and in every direction.

It is not a problem that the humanities are a plateau.

It is not a problem that the humanities are a plateau. — Bitter Crank

I agree in so far as the ground has been plowed, but I do not consider the current state of the humanities as being at a plateau. I think the attempt to go further than what has already been said has led to a decline. But this is not to say that no good work is being done.

I think the problem with the humanities is the incessant push to say something new, something novel, something different. T — Fooloso4

This leads, in most cases, to saying less and less about things that are of concern to human being and human life. — Fooloso4

Yes, that is the problem. The keywords are most cases.

I never claimed that learning to write was difficult or simple, either inside or outside of academia.

There's many a best-seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher.” — Bitter Crank

I agree. "A person does not act upon the world, the world acts upon him."---B.F. Skinner

However, according to a contextualist perspective, people modify their behavior in order to function in their social and physical environments, and they either become its producers or its products. Self-efficacious individuals are more likely to identify artificial limitations in both social and academic settings, and more importantly, they may think of innovative solutions to alter the confines or develop methods to circumnavigate around them.

1980's because this was the era during which neo-liberalism bloomed via Thatcher and Reagan — Tom Storm

That makes sense. The Reaganites. Strong opinions on both sides.

Mass and length can't be compared in a meaningful way? :chin: — Agent Smith

In that specific context, yes.

In that specific context, yes. — Christopher

Please explain.

Maybe your brother’s point was that you talk and talk and end up saying ‘nonsense’ as you put it. — I like sushi

He frequently makes that point...he might be on to something.

Note: My own writing style is not exacting concise! :D — I like sushi

Sometimes brevity is overrated. :)

Formal education prepares one for life-long learning, IF one is willing to practice it. — Bitter Crank

Is this the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

I agree in so far as the ground has been plowed, but I do not consider the current state of the humanities as being at a plateau. I think the attempt to go further than what has already been said has led to a decline. But this is not to say that no good work is being done. — Fooloso4

That's true. It's like saying we know everything because the bases are covered. Yet, we are still in the infancy stage of applied sapience.

Mass and length can't be compared in a meaningful way? :chin: — Agent Smith

I am confused by the question mark. Are you asking me if they can't be compared in a meaningful way?

I am confused by the question mark. Are you asking me if they can't be compared in a meaningful way? — Christopher

Well yeah!

Is this the difference between knowledge and wisdom? — Christopher

I wasn't aiming that high. Just this: In school students learn 'how to learn' and start accumulating knowledge about the world. Given curiosity about the world, lifelong learning continues all the way to the grave. (Wisdom isn't one of my favorite words.). Many people aren't all that curious, and/or do not have good knowledge acquisition skills. It's not a fault if you didn't have the chance, but shame on college graduates who stop reading widely once they graduate. We can become stupid if we are not careful.

But an apprenticeship could help. — jgill

Absolutely. The solitary writer can develop numerous bad habits. Polish comes from having our rough spots scraped off by other writers. It's not a process we like, but after a time one's writing is much better.

Im confused… Is the debate proposition not “Humanities and social sciences are no longer useful in academia”? You don’t seem to be explicitly affirming or opposing it. You tell us a story wherein you provide at least one reason we should deny the proposition. Im just browsing this debate category in hope to find and participate in a more formal debate. This seems to be a discussion on debate, which is fine. Im happy to participate on either side of any debate on any topic. Im just trying to sharpen my up my skills (or perhaps my competence).

What are the humanities? Learning concerned with human culture, especially literature, history, art, music, and philosophy.

What is a social science? A social science is any branch of academic study or science that deals with human behaviour in its social and cultural aspects.

These disciplines/activities are a study of humans of humans by humans for humans. :snicker: They fall under the broad rubric of the Delphic maxim temet nosce (know thyself). Notwithstanding that this is self-promotion, my own view on the matter is we're like stroke patients with hemiagnosia (neglecting/ignoring aspects of us - culture, creativity, values, etc. - that make us us) if we downgrade the importance of the humanities & the social sciences.

The name humanities is a big hint in re how vital these subjects are to our understanding of ourselves. The social sciences are designed to interpret the relationship between the individual and the group, what's the bond that holds the community and how these bonds are stressed and sometimes broken.

Exactly my first experience with Castaneda's Art of Dreaming many years ago. Stephan King describes an alternate reality in one of his books in which an onion is pulled from the ground and someone a mile away smells it. — jgill

Take that <whatever you call these people>!