I'd link you to it but I don't know how.

Do you have the experience of location, of darkness and light; the experience of objects, of sensations (pain, hunger, desire, boredom), of thoughts and of emotions (and so forth)?

Considered collectively, this is what it's like to be you. That's how the phrase 'what it is like to be me' is or can be used.

You can choose not to use the phrase. But you need to justify this choice.

It's not convincing to say you don't understand the phrase. But you can choose, and justify your choice, not to use it. — ZzzoneiroCosm

To which Jackson replied:

Never said I did not understand the phrase. I said it is incoherent and nearly meaningless. — Jackson

Focusing on the incoherence claim.



So what's happening here?

I think I answered your question, but you seem not to agree.

Yet you understand "square" and "circle" but think "square circle" incoherent.

What you understand by "round" and by "square" do not go together in an obviously coherent fashion. — Banno

We must be working with different definitions of or usages for "incoherent".

Above, the sentence "I drew a square circle" was presented by Jackson. This is the sort of sentence I would call incoherent. I might define 'incoherent' in this context as 'ununderstandable'. Or, eschewing definitions, I might say that the sentence in question is the sort I would call incoherent or ununderstandable.

To my lights, there's nothing to understand in the sentence, "I drew a square circle." I might imagine someone drawing a square and then drawing a circle and then I might try to reconcile the two drawings. My failure to effect this reconciliation would lead me to say this sentence is incoherent, is ununderstandable, is nonsense.

Obviously, the components of the sentence, taken separately, are understandable or coherent: I, the act of drawing, the idea of a circle, the idea of a square.

I might define 'incoherent' in this context as 'ununderstandable'. — ZzzoneiroCosm

Why would you do that?

https://www.etymonline.com/word/incoherent#etymonline_v_30010

Why would you do that? — Banno

in·co·her·ent
/ˌinkōˈhirənt/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
(of spoken or written language) expressed in an incomprehensible or confusing way; unclear.

https://www.google.com/search?q=incoherent&oq=in+ohere&aqs=chrome.4.69i57j69i60l3j35i39i305j0i10i433l3.2524j1j4&client=ms-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

At any rate that's the disconnect.

So your point seem to be that if you claim that being coherent means being understood, that you cannot say something is both incoherent and understood.

If you claim all geese are sheep then the quilt is stuffed with wool.

So your point seem to be that if you claim that being coherent means being understood, that you cannot say something is both incoherent and understood. — Banno

Not really set on making a point. Just want to understand what's going on in the dialog.

The dictionary defines "incoherent" as (among other things) "incomprehensible." (I prefer "ununderstandable" because of the clarity of the root and my taste for the eccentric.) You and Jackson seem to be working with a different definition. That's why we don't see eye to eye. End of game for me.

If you want to set out a definition for "incoherent" beyond "the opposite of coherent," I'm interested. But I feel like the dialogic conundrum is already resolved.

If you claim all geese are sheep then the quilt is stuffed with wool. — Banno

Makes a nice koan. :pray:

So your point seem to be that if you claim that being coherent means being understood — Banno

Not "understood," "understandable."

Understand: It makes sense.

Incoherent: It doesn't make sense.

These concepts seem important: Apophenia & Pareidolia.
To get right to the point, incoherence, no such thing!

Good to know you (and the dictionary) see what the problem is. :smile:

Good to know you (and the dictionary) see what the problem is. :smile: — ZzzoneiroCosm

Well, I try my best! :smile:

Apophenia & Pareidolia. — Agent Smith

Not sure what you mean but those are pretty words and I'm happy to add them to my vocabulary list.

Not sure what you mean but those are pretty words and I'm happy to add them to my vocabulary list. — ZzzoneiroCosm

Visit Wikipedia for details.

:roll:

Astonishing.

The height of incoherence is a contradiction but there's paraconsistent logic, dialetheism (contradiction tolerant logics).

Already done. :smile:

Already done. :smile: — ZzzoneiroCosm

:up:

Here's the confusion:

incoherent

1.

(of spoken or written language) expressed in an incomprehensible or confusing way; unclear.
"he screamed some incoherent threat"

{To my view, definition 1. is more apropos to the dialog above as it's "spoken or written language" that's under scrutiny. But to each his own.}

2.

(of an ideology, policy, or system) internally inconsistent; illogical.
"the film is ideologically incoherent"

{To my view, definition 2. is the wrong choice as it's not at all an ideology, policy or system (or anything resembling these) that's under scrutiny. But again, to each his own.}




This is the issue - or I assume must be the issue, lacking clarification from those espousing a definition different from definition 1. I assume you preference is for definition 2.

Incoherent means either: 1. incomprehensible or 2. internally inconsistent.

So pick your poison, but there's no need to continue the dialog if the word is being used in two different ways. We're quite literally speaking two different languages.

https://www.google.com/search?q=incoherent&oq=in+ohere&aqs=chrome.4.69i57j69i60l3j35i39i305j0i10i433l3.2524j1j4&client=ms-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Astonishing. — Banno

This shouldn't be astonishing to anyone who's watched the forum closely for years and years and years and years. But thanks for popping in with some input.

We don't always mean what we say. So what we say may mean nothing even though we do mean something. If I draw a square with rounded corners and call it a round square, then you can object that there's no such thing as a round square but you can add charitably that nevertheless you know what I mean.