Yes. The meaning of life is life itself. But then Dawkins is wrong. We don't procreate genes and memes cause they order to, as he implies, but just because to live. But as a physicist I wanna know the reason, the cause of life.

In typical Hawking "voice":

"From the outside, you can't see what's in a black hole..."

Yes. The meaning of life is life itself. But then Dawkins is wrong. We don't procreate genes and memes cause they order to, as he implies, but just because to live. But as a physicist I wanna know the reason, the cause of life — EugeneW

No, Dawkins explains the mechanism of life, just as Darwin and many others did.
Living life is what humans can do, due to the mechanisms which allow it or bring it into existence/conscience/awareness.
Dawkins reports no 'reasons' for the establishment of the mechanisms but he himself fervently embraces the wonder of living. He regularly asks 'are the wonders of the Universe not good enough, why do you need god?' He is trying to get people to combat their very strong instinct towards calming their primal fears with pleads for protection from nonexistent supernaturals. especially when such deals normally involve compliance with nefarious religious doctrines, totally invented by humans based on ancient storytelling. The main purpose of such religion is to make the majority serve and maintain an elite few and to f****** fight and die for them when they command us to!

I share and understand your wish to know more about 'the reason, the cause.' So let's keep looking. Science is our best way forward. Anything told you in a dream was just an exchange between YOUR Rcomplex, YOUR limbic system and YOUR cerebral cortex!
Absolutely no external influence was involved unless you ate and drank too soon before sleep. In which case your dream may have had more to do with soup than spirit, unless the spirit was a single malt!
You are clever, you don't need stupid gods.
I bet if you denied their existence for the next second, minute, hour, day, month, year etc
Your life would not change one iota! Especially if you smash any rising fears that manifest by doing so.
Just like a recovering junkie, for some, going through religious cold turkey can be tough but worth it in the end.

:rofl: sorry, I am just laughing as I know your immediate instinct will instruct you to employ the usual reversal on my last comment. :halo: I will save you time so you can just copy & paste:
Just like a recovering junkie, for some, coming back to religion by going through atheistic cold turkey can be tough but worth it in the end.

Just like a recovering junkie, for some, coming back to religion by going through atheistic cold turkey can be tough but worth it in the end. — universeness

Exactly! We could go on ages like this. Why didn't he just call his book: "Genes and memes, why we should thank the gods"...?

Exactly! We could go on ages like this — EugeneW

Yeah but there is the residual hope that I may not get a light beam through your theistic fog but I may get a wee shard of light through the theistic fog of any reader, clouded by such.

Don't you F****** dare EugeneW, get your hands off that keyboard until you take that 'reversal' hat off!
:rofl: :lol: :rofl:

Then I take the hat inside out first! Through the atheist mist, it's difficult for the gods to reach us. They try and try and try... Attending us that also the human gods were involved in creation. They played their part in heaven but their endless mind squiblings didn't any good for their collective creation.... Take that ursser!

"From the outside, you can't see what's in a black hole..." — EugeneW

From the outside, I don't know what a particular human thinks, feels, wants etc.
They need to tell me and if they don't then I never will never know, unless someone else knows and they tell me.
Your god(s) are totally silent and are unable to manifest, We only have made up ancient stories and the promise of those who interpret their own dreams. Just not good enough!

it's difficult for the gods to reach us. They try and try and try... Attending us that also the human gods were involved in creation. They played their part in heaven but their endless mind squiblings didn't any good for their collective creation.... Take that — EugeneW

This is just wordplay, fun, but just prose and rather disjointed.

This is just wordplay, fun, but just prose and rather disjointed. — universeness

It's what happened in heaven. I was informed in a dream and by forum member Tom Storm, who the gods used to inform me.

It's what happened in heaven. I was informed in a dream and by forum member Tom Storm, who the gods used to inform me — EugeneW

ooooookkkkkaaaaayyyyyy! Sorry, I can't do any better :halo:

This is just wordplay, fun, but just prose and rather disjointed. — universeness

Tòm Storm. His name speaks... The disjoint nature of the prose I use is disjoint because the situation in heaven was rather disjoint...

ooooookkkkkaaaaayyyyyy! Sorry, I can't do any better — universeness

Don't be sorry universeness! Call me mental or disjoint. But isn't the scientific approach, which is an honorable one, using prose also? And rather disjoint too?

An egotheist, then
— baker

Haha! A selfish theist? Or a theist thinking he's a god himself? — EugeneW

A theist who glorifies himself and creates a god in his own image: "God is whatever I say God is".
A self-styled "theist" who doesn't care a straw about God.

A theist who glorifies himself and creates a god in his own image: "God is whatever I say God is".
A self-styled "theist" who doesn't care a straw about God. — baker

There is not one god. There are as many gods as there were, are, and will be creatures in the universe.

There is not one god. There are as many gods as there were, are, and will be creatures in the universe. — EugeneW

Thus such "theists" themselves render God irrelevant.

Thus such "theists" themselves render God irrelevant. — baker

Well, without them we wouldn't exist. So they give meaning to all life. Their reasons for creating us were selfish but understandable.

ooooookkkkkaaaaayyyyyy! :halo:
4h — universeness

:rofl: :lol: :rofl:

How you say that in Scottish?

You have a strong imperative towards what I would consider 'humanism.'
You add to my hopes for a better future for all of us by such typings!
— universeness

Thank you for your kind words! — lll

The point has been made before. If there is a God (God Hypothesis) then those things put forward to challenge 'God' will fail out of necessity. The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Lizard Men etc. are fails. Humanism, a 'faith' constructed by atheism to counter religion, fails too. Humanity, the thing responsible for global warming and offering an antidote in the form of nuclear winter should be trusted?

If the simple living of life was enough then people would not feel impelled to seek further meaning of significance. Simply living life is enough for some, but others seem to want more. No problem with that is there?

If g/G created this universe for a Reason, then it's Reason that's "divine" since g/G obeys (obeyed) it. If, however, g/G created the universe for no reason, then g/G is morally, perhaps ontologically, indistinguishable from a quantum fluctuation, and therefore, randomness (Chance) itself is "divine". Either way, I prefer to cut out "the middle man" as the Gnostics do and avoid superstition & idolatry. :fire:

Blah blah blah...

then g/G is morally, perhaps ontologically, indistinguishable from a quantum fluctuation — 180 Proof

Just look at what you write...

Quantum fluctuations are determined processes.

And I do accept the magic bullet theory
— Gregory A
— universeness

Even though physics shows that such a bullet path is impossible, hence the use of the word magic?

The Magic Bullet Theory is the single-bullet theory. One bullet no magic needed.

Magic???

Your stupidity is (an effect) brought on by a zealous nature intellectual arrogance allows
— Gregory A

Now there's a good example of the boiling pot calling out the frothing kettle!

You're not stupid. It's that arrogance has caused you to not think over your own position properly.

In all fairness what would we do with these 3 Dawkins books: The Blind Watchmaker, The Selfish Gene & The God Delusion if evidence of a god were shown. How does he get away with 'The Magic of Reality' anyhow
— Gregory A

Dawkins does not believe in magic! But yeah, he is allowed to reference the word, just like you reference words like 'science'.
What will we do with the bible, the quran, the torah etc if the god posit is proved false?
God would seem to have the easier route. Science may never be able to disprove god, yet all god has to do is appear and submit itself to scientific scrutiny. Should be easy for an it that manifests all the omnis.

Of course he doesn't believe in magic. The point was and should be obvious is that the title is a mistake either way, a blunder on his part. He is avoiding the use of 'miracle' and is trying to indoctrinate children at the same time. If I were an atheist and had written the same book I would still use 'miracle ' despite its theistic overtones. Not using it as though no one would notice is plain stupid.

And, how could God submit 'himself' to scientific scrutiny and then still be a god. A god that submits to anything is not a god. If we knew there was a god what would that do for our freewill.

The Bibles represent belief they are not an attack on anything. Even if it turned out we are subject to a Natural universe where everything is decided by chance, these books would still have value.

No, Dawkins explains the mechanism of life — universeness

He litterally writes that he was overwhelmed by the realization (which he calls an absolute truth) that organisms are machines made and ordered by genes with the purposes of procreating them, pass them on. Or memes, in the case of humans. Now what kind of meme is that? Can't he do better? The meaning, purpose of life is to pass on life. It's circular and devaluating. If you see people as machines programmed by selfish genes, what has gone wrong in your life?

Besides Darwinian evolution, from which the central dogma in biology evolved, there is Lamarckian evolution. The organism being central and not genetics or Mendelian operations.

How you say that in Scottish? — EugeneW

I think we have some common ground between Oxford English and Glaswegian Dialect when it comes to oooookkkkkkaaaayyyyy! Perhaps the only difference would be how many plums you have in your mouth at the time you stretch out 'ok.'. I don't mean to mock you with any malice aforethought EugeneW. I mean that in earnest. As an atheist, I am 100% skeptical when anyone claims direct revelation from god, while awake or in a dream, and I assume that if they are serious, then something else is going on.

As an atheist, I am 100% skeptical when anyone claims direct revelation from god, while awake or in a dream, and I assume that if they are serious, then something else is going on. — universeness

But these are the tactics used very often to declare opposing positions as something else going on (if taken seriously). You can say the same of Dawkins' "realization" that we are gene-driven machines...

Just look at the last day active threads. 13 of them are about gods...

There is not one god. There are as many gods as there were, are, and will be creatures in the universe — EugeneW

Are you not really just saying here, that in your opinion, we are all gods?
There is a song by a great Canadian band called Arcade Fire, its called Wake Up.
Two Lines from the song are:

We’re just a million little gods causin' rainstorms, turnin’ every good thing to rust.
I guess we’ll just have to adjust.

Its one of my favourite songs, here it is:



Maybe this is where your gods truly exist, only in the lyrics of some good songs.

Humanity, the thing responsible for global warming and offering an antidote in the form of nuclear winter should be trusted? — Gregory A

Yes, humans create the problems, humans can create the solutions, we don't need judgment or redemption from a fictitious character that we also created. God is like global warming, a problem human's created, atheism is a possible solution to that particular problem.

Great song! Look at the arm of the drowning. Reaching for the candle. Longing to wake up from the bad dream.

God is like global warming — universeness

A powerful image!