Perhaps, but I did read the article. I think "demonising" is a fairly accurate characterisation. Generally, in my examination of any religious tradition, i like to back to the founder's words rather than those of later functionaries of the bureaucracy. — unenlightened
And there is no shortage through the millennia, but it is a continuous betrayal of Christianity as characterised by the words and deeds of Jesus.
In question is the judgement of those who think an evil god worthy of worship. — Banno
There is no Christian monopoly on virtue. — Banno
What are we to make of an insuperable entity that insists on being worshiped and thanked in perpetuity? Set the punishment aside for a moment. What's up with the perpetual need for devotion and praise? This creature knocks out a cosmos and then require endless thanks? — Tom Storm
Modern people of the West, and this is particularly true of the English diaspora, have simply lost a mode of cognition that pre-modern people had, and so can't make sense of the morality contained, let's say, in Proverbs that leads to these sorts of conclusions. And so it strikes such people as ridiculous.
— Snakes Alive
...or perhaps "Modern people of the West" have reached a point of not accepting conclusions based on insufficient and contradictory accounts. — Banno
So who decides who is a real Christian? You?
— baker
Answer me this, yes or no: is a person a Christian (or anything else) just because they say they are? And if no, why not? — tim wood
In other words, it's not mine to discern or define what is a Christian, but people using the term to describe themselves should work it out amongst themselves. — baker
So who or what is Christ? The Son of God? One who brought the sword, not peace? One who taught to turn the other cheek, but when the time came for him to do so, he didn't? One who bemoaned his fate on the cross? A magician, able to turn water into wine and such? A necessary intermediate between us and God? An ancient itinerary preacher? An allegory? ???A Christian is a more-or-less well defined thing characterized mainly by a belief in Christ, and certain things about him. And no need at all to be one to understand, use, or appreciate the term. — tim wood
That is, words either mean something, or they themselves mean nothing at all.
After all, if one person, or two or more persons, claim that to be a Christina is to have and enjoy a croissant in the morning, and nothing more, does that make them Christians?
And just here is where you set yourself out to stumble over your own self. The Christian creed is believe. Thus in their wisdom not troubled by who or what. And you, having presupposed what it must be - about a who or a what - obstruct yourself from the possibility of even thinking about it correctly. This in a sense straw-manning your own self. But perhaps it keeps you safe in being manifestly concerned with and battling nothings - what danger could such a person be?So who or what is Christ? — baker
And just here is where you set yourself out to stumble over your own self. The Christian creed is believe. Thus in their wisdom not troubled by who or what. And you, having presupposed what it must be - about a who or a what - obstruct yourself from the possibility of even thinking about it correctly. This in a sense straw-manning your own self. But perhaps it keeps you safe in being manifestly concerned with and battling nothings - what danger could such a person be? — tim wood
But perhaps it keeps you safe in being manifestly concerned with and battling nothings - what danger could such a person be?
Simply that you appear to hold that what a Christian is, is what people who call themselves Christians say it is, period. And I disagree. What a Christian is, is more-or-less well-defined; and by those established understandings anyone may judge, and sometimes ought to judge, whether such claims are legitimate. By more-or-less I mean well-defined at the core, though allowing for some wiggle-room at the edges.What on earth are you talking about?? — baker
Yes and no. There are certainly people who call themselves Christians who believe in hell. As to what Christians themselves believe, that not-so-simple. And if you get close to it, not simple at all. Notwithstanding your efforts otherwise.So do you deny that there are christians who believe in hell? — Banno
Those Christians who chose to worship a god they believe will damn fol for eternity remain morally reprehensible. — Banno
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