It's more interesting to ask honestly why we believe what we do, than to congratulate ourselves for believing it, is what I'm saying. — Snakes Alive
It remains difficult to see how a finite number of transgressions merits a non-finite punishment — Banno
What the stories are meant to convey is a certain way of living a spiritual life, so if you focus on the fairy tale, religious folks will always feel like you don't really get it. Every time you say "evidence", for instance, believers yawn. — Srap Tasmaner
You don't have to be here. But there might be more courage in staying than walking away. — Banno
'eternity' — Srap Tasmaner
I don't really see the point in arguing against what I'm calling the "fairy tale". — Srap Tasmaner
We know that Christianity is flawed-that doesn't mean the people are. — john27
It seems you mean something else. — Banno
How does one determine the difference between the extraneous 'fairy tale' and the significant 'spiritual life'? How do you know what's in and what's out? — Tom Storm
Christians would consider themselves flawed, it being part of Christian doctrine. You're not the one who can save them, either. So, don't feel too bad about it. — Ciceronianus
Truth without coherence or consistency? Lewis is pointing out the consequences of certain christian dogma. Your response to what he says - growth or stagnation - is over to you. — Banno
The need to engage in such a process speaks loudly to the poverty of those scriptures. — Banno
Well, yes, there are doubtless different, creative ways of reading the scriptures that excuse god from being a bit of a bastard. The need to engage in such a process speaks loudly to the poverty of those scriptures. — Banno
The bit in the Bible that mentions loving thy neighbor are true - all that other stuff about genocide, rape, torture, retribution, judgment, misogyny and homophobia and never wearing mixed fabrics - that stuff is allegorical. — Tom Storm
I think Genesis is an indication of what I mean. Many many Christians take the story in Genesis to be, well, a story, just a picturesque way of conveying the idea of a creator. Only certain sorts of believers take it literally. A lot of the interpretation of scripture relies on various sorts of symbolic analysis. It's normal. I'm suggesting that it's open to a believer to take a lot as just storytelling to convey some pretty abstract stuff. — Srap Tasmaner
Not what I was saying and missing the point of this discussion. — Srap Tasmaner
IOW, set ourselves up as the judges over other people's religious identity.
— baker
I begin to suspect you're crazy. Where does your thinking come from? People say all kinds of things, but saying alone never makes it so, right? Being a Christian - or anything - is not settled merely because a person says he is. If that, then a Christian - or anything else - is whatever anyone says it is, whenever it pleases them to say it. Is that how you understand that world to operate when its operating reasonably well? — tim wood
That's not the point; it is the supposed monopoly on salvation, not charity, that lacks coherence. In question is the judgement of those who think an evil god worthy of worship. — Banno
Christianity as a religion, as we know it, would not exist but for Paul of Tarsus. It's largely his creation, I think. There's no escaping him and his influence. Without him, it's likely it would have been a Jewish sect. — Ciceronianus
Let's take as an illustration two notable christian philosophers, Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine:
— Amalac
Thanks for this. Those who have claimed that belief in hell is not central to Christianity would do well to consider your post. — Banno
I say a god who inflicts infinite torture for finite offences is not worthy of worship. — Banno
Acting in line with them makes one a loser.
— baker
O loser of what? — Janus
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