but it's another entirely to treat those still trying to catch up with very fast moving changes as if they were the enemy — Isaac

There would be a clear difference between a legitimate effort to use the correct pronouns, and someone who simply doesn't care. Someone who doesn't care, and continually makes the mistake is an issue. Someone who continually makes a mistake, while legitimately trying is not.

There is always the issue of intention, and I believe that intention is paramount to the discussion.

far as I know, Hanover is still looking for a running mate. — T Clark

I am actually. I'm probably going to pick whoever has the most up votes. That'd make sense.

As others have said, the emergency of this situation is limited enough that we can take our time, accept as much as we're comfortable with, and slow down with the condemnation. — Hanover

This is a really good point.

I'd give you an upvote, but you're at 69 and I'm unwilling to change that.

gendering people based on how they look is the norm

anyone that goes againts the norm has a hidden agenda

if you look like a girl im calling you a girl
if you look like a guy im calling you a guy

i dont care what genitals you have

if i cant guess your gender im asking for your name

If you're a guy who likes guys, or gal who likes gals, or either who likes both, good for you. Why should the rest of us have to acknowledge that in your title, your pronoun? — tim wood

This is an irrelevant conclusion, Gender Identity is not Sexual Orientation, and I don't know any person who asks for different pronouns based on Sexual Orientation. Instead differing pronouns are asked for because, of someone identifying as neither female or male.

who gives a shit what 1% of the population wants

they need to accommodate the majority

Additionally, if we can make it a norm through social action to e.g. yell at people who misgender others, I believe we can bring about meaningful change especially if we organize. — K Turner

I agree, things could easily become social norms, if we gave enough effort to arguing the morality of using the correct pronouns.

In order to be completely gender-neutral, the use of pronouns should be discontinued. Just stop using pronouns. For example, instead of "Do you want some coffee?" simply say "Coffee, yes or no?" Instead of "I disagree with you" simply say "Disagree." Hand gestures may come in handy (get?) as well.

Think so, or don't think so? — Ciceronianus the White

I don't think so. Pronouns are not simply gendered, pronouns such as, I, we, they, them, provide no information to the person of gender, as these pronouns do not inherently possess a gender. On contrary, he, she, her do possess an inherent gendered description. As such, removing gender-neutral terms in a gender-neutral society seems like it would only increase the difficulty of communication, without any seeming benefit to the idea of a gender neutral society.

Gender-Neutrality is the lack of gendered terms, and given that these terms aren't gendered they would not need to be removed.

Hell, I didn't know I could use "they." I thought I might get strung up for using "they" if "they" wanted to be called "she" or "it" or "he" or L or G or B or T or Q or whatever. I use "they" all the time. And "you" and "people." But I can get in trouble for saying "you people." In boot camp I got in trouble for saying "you". "Private calling me 'ewe'? Do I look like a female sheep, Private?" — James Riley

A lot of people would not take any offence to be called they or them, in fact most people will politely correct someone when they are mis gendered. There is no need to call someone who goes by 'they' as 'she', at it's best its just disrespectful. It's simple to ask, and even if you get it wrong, most people won't be too frustrated by this as long as you show a willingness to be open to change, and attempt it. That's all that's being asked.

It sounds cold, but unless I want something from you, I'd just avoid you. The burden is upon me if it is me seeking to engage. Otherwise, you can leave, or I'll send your saddle home. — James Riley

Isn't that the ideology of most people, most people don't seek others out without wanting something from them, even if that something is something they don't 'want', it's still something they may have to do, such as receiving a punishment. People seek out people for reasons, and there is never no reason to seek someone out, regardless of how small that reason is.

If someone can decide for themselves if their essence is male or female or a combination, why can't they decide their own age?

Just saying — Gregory

Because age is fact, and gender is a social construct.

Furthermore, people don't 'choose' their gender identity. Do you choose to be whatever gender you are? No, you believe you are born like that. Many non-binary people feel the same.

How, therefore, is it insulting to you if I call you “he”or “she” when talking to others? Is it because those others might relate that back to you? — Leghorn

Because it denies the existence of my gender identity, and questions the validity of my identity.

It would be like me calling you an alien to your friends.

Besides, if you do not identify as "she" are you saying there is something wrong with being a she? Are you misogynistic? — James Riley

Not at all, only that you don't identify with the gender. It would be like me saying that I'm not an Australian National Party Supporter, this doesn't mean I hate Australian National Party Supporters, merely that I don't identify with the group

My reaction was the same. Not sure how I might have responded if I was encouraged to take a moment and think about it, and if I could, please call you "they," that it would mean much to you, but would be understandable if I wasn't there just yet or if my old habits just weren't to be broken. — Hanover

This is very true. I guess I have a very serious flaw where my philosophical pursuits comes from attempting to understand the world around me, and I often forget that it is also the job of the philosopher to try and find a way forward. Perhaps this is an area of my thinking that I need to fix, and remember that understanding is just as important as the future.

I'm disappointed that I did not have the foresight to put such a question into my original post, and I admire you for allowing me to opening my mind and change my way of thinking permanently about philosophy.

I guess I just also considered understanding the most important part of philosophy, and forgot as to why we want to understand.

Isn't that the ideology of most people, most people don't seek others out without wanting something from them, even if that something is something they don't 'want', it's still something they may have to do, such as receiving a punishment. — Bradaction

Right. If I seek something from someone who wants me to do something I don't want to do, I won't deal with them. I'll go elsewhere. If they come to me, they take me as they find me. If Salma Hayek wants me to call her "him" then that will probably be the end of it. I George Clooney wants me to call him "her", likewise.

Not at all, only that you don't identify with the gender. It would be like me saying that I'm not an Australian National Party Supporter, this doesn't mean I hate Australian National Party Supporters, merely that I don't identify with the group — Bradaction

But if you are flying their flag, don't blame someone for figuring you are one of them, even if you have told them you are not. Likewise, don't go looking like a man unless you plan on getting treated like one.

It seems to be used as propaganda more than addressed as an issue by those it should concern. If you can call them by their name then call them by whatever they select. If you misnamed some one more than once you'd apologize.

Do you choose to be whatever gender you are? No, you believe you are born like that. Many non-binary people feel the same. — Bradaction

Truth doesn't care about what you feel. I know that I am male because my soul is male. A person either has a male soul or a female soul. That is reality and no construction can make it otherwise

The new generation doesn't like rules. That what complete existentialism where they can decide what they are in nature and decide for themselves what is true or false. It's just immaturity

Truth doesn't care about what you feel. I know that I am male because my soul is male. A person either has a male soul or a female soul. That is reality and no construction can make it otherwise — Gregory

its not the soul, its the brain, or hormones or something

there is no soul

It seems to be used as propaganda more than addressed as an issue by those it should concern. If you can call them by their name then call them by whatever they select. If you misnamed some one more than once you'd apologize. — Cheshire

or how about i call you whatever the heck i want to call you

because its a free country

if you dont like it you can go cry in the corner

Not at all, only that you don't identify with the gender. It would be like me saying that I'm not an Australian National Party Supporter, this doesn't mean I hate Australian National Party Supporters, merely that I don't identify with the group — Bradaction

i dont identify as a human

im god

call me god from now on

if we gave enough effort to arguing the morality of using the correct pronouns — Bradaction

lets argue the morality of trying to force others to say certain things

The soul is the identity of the whole biological organism of a human

What if I sleep with a 14 year old and tell the police "my ID says I'm 35 but I identity as a 14 year old so I did nothing wrong". People need to contemplate where their ideas lead to

The soul is not something you can pinpoint with science. With Hegel's logic, for example, two terms of a dialectic sublate each other, which just means something new EMERGES that is greater than the parts. Our identifies are greater than the parts of the body and you have, for whatever reason there may be, either a male soul or a female soul. You can't change this latter in life. If your body is male you soul likely is too, and so on for the female form

Truth doesn't care about what you feel. I know that I am male because my soul is male. A person either has a male soul or a female soul. That is reality and no construction can make it otherwise — Gregory

I agree that truth doesn't care what you feel. But I know I am neither male nor female because I don't have an either male nor female soul. Furthermore, this is not even reality.

Where is your evidence that a person either has a male soul or a female? Where are your evidence that there are different types of souls? What defines a soul? What suggests that there is a strictly female or male soul? What about societies in Africa where they traditionally believe in a third gender? How do we even know that souls exist?

Most importantly where is your evidence for these assertations. You cannot claim that something is reality, without providing any evidence as to why that is reality, especially if that belief is contested, and would defeat the entire purpose of reality in general.

You may believe that there is only a male or female soul, but you cannot prove this, thus you cannot claim it to be the unquestionable reality.

Souls cannot be proven to exist, and even they could, it would be impossible to define whether souls are female or male, just as a person's eye colour can't tell you how many crimes they have committed.

You are asking me to prove something obvious. It's not my fault you have a psychological disorder. Maybe you'll start claiming you are a gorilla and ask for proof your not. Read my last post on souls above

Also, I can tell one someone has committed a crime. You got a problem if you can't

The new generation doesn't like rules. That what complete existentialism where they can decide what they are in nature and decide for themselves what is true or false. It's just immaturity — Gregory

Except for the fact that this is the basis of philosophy? To question the 'facts' and 'truths' around us. Philosophy is the interpretation of the rules of nature.

Furthermore, this is extremely patronising, the fact that someone belongs to a generation that holds different beliefs does not justify your beliefs nor mean that theirs are wrong. It opens a door for debate, which again is the point of philosophy. Bringing up the age of someone you debate against is a fallacy on principle.

People claim now that their inner animal is their identity. What's your argument against them?