emotions often goes against logic. — Kinglord1090

This is an older traditional notion of the relation between emotion and logic and it has been discarded by many psychologists today. Emotion was thought of as extraneous to thinking , a mere spice that was sprinkled on top of concepts, and usually disorganizing to thinking. The opposite is now thought to be the case.

Who says emotions and body are one and the same?
Do you have any scientific proof or sources to back your claims?

Animals were never born with emotions to begin with.
We go through surgeries to remove appendix and wisdom teeth as they are vestigial.
Why can't we do the same with emotions, then?

Also, we are talking about a hypothetical here.
Which means we don't have to think how it is done before we know if it will even be a good choice or not.

How can you say its not worth it?
A bit of pain for infinite peace.
Or would you like to see war and murders happening as long as you get to live without pain?

Like I have said before.
I don't believe in mind and body are same, or that the mind and body share some sort of spiritual connection.
But, thats just my view.

I personally see consciousness and 'mind' as just neurons firing in the brain and nothing more.

Well, animals and plants don't have emotions like humans do.
Are they any higher or lower of an entity than us? -No
If they can survive like this, why can't we?

A delusion would be believing in something with no proof.
I have proof and explanation.
You don't.
So, please leave this post.

We go through surgeries to remove appendix and wisdom teeth as they are vestigial.
Why can't we do the same with emotions, then? — Kinglord1090

Emotions are our body’s way of telling us how well we are coping with situations. But even without feedback from
the body we would still be affective beings. When a friend borrows your car , smashes it up and doesn’t tell you , you will feel anger because anger is your sense of disappointment combined with desire for retribution. When you have an upcoming root canal appointment you will feel anxiety because anxiety is out anticipating and preparing for a potentially negative unknown future. When you cheat on your wife you may feel guilt because guilt is just your sense of you letting yourself and others down.

@Joshs
When I saw this title I face palmed.

Desire has always been and always will be the driver of humans,and our desires have a logic to them.

Its Just that some humans are more logical in desires than others.

Philosophy,rationality and science have peddled this total myth that logic is seperate or superior and detachable from desire and emotions.

All the delusional debates and hypothetical on this forum about logic,yet a prime basic axiomatic fundamental truth like desire being primary is still ignored or worse still denied!

I will say it again,without psychology and the axiom of desire,philosophy is sophistry and whistling in the wind.

Well, I dont know how to respond to your message.
Even a simple Google search comes up with this result.
"delusion - an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder."

I have been giving rational arguments to all the questions, so if anyone's being delusional it would be Mr. Protagoras.
Hope you get well soon. : )

Well, animals and plants don't have emotions like humans do. — Kinglord1090

It used to be commonly thought that animals don’t have emotions. Now we know that they are capable of a huge range of complex emotions, just like we are.

@Kinglord1090

Animals don't have emotions!!!!!!!!

Have you never had a pet dog?

You have lost the plot monsieur.

Your evidence is nonsense.

Yep. i think people want to believe in an easy formula to guide their lives.The world is a giant machine and all we have to do is figure out how it works mThe. we can throw away such messy things as subjectivity, feeling , values , interpretation, and just follow a logical blueprint.

Well, I dont know how to respond to your message.
Even a simple Google search comes up with this result.
"delusion - an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder."

I have been giving rational arguments to all the questions, so if anyone's being delusional it would be Mr. Protagoras.
Hope you get well soon. : ) — Kinglord1090

I was referring to myself!

If we go to the root of all emotions and desires, we are not that different from robots. — Kinglord1090

Actually, we are fundamentally different in several significant ways, at least we are now in the current state of AI/Robotics.

• Human minds are based on things like prediction and auto-associative memory.
  
• Human beings are a social species and emotion concepts are largely social constructs.
  
• Human brains are part of a body that needs to regulate energy appropriate to circumstances.

@Joshs
Your right. It's an attempt to escape reality by inventing illusions to make people feel safe and comfortable.

The irony is life is absolutely wonderful throwing away those illusions and embracing your emotions fully.

The "enlightenment" and all anti body religious scholars have a lot to answer for!

How descartes believed animals were machines is mind boggling delusion!

Like i said, the first question to tackle is if humans can survive without emotions.
You have merely stated the importance of it, but that doesnt prove its usefulness.
Alexithymia is a disease where people lose the ability to feel emotions, and the only problem they face is not being able to understand others, but if everyone were to lose emotions, this wont be a problem anymore as no one would need to understand other's emotions to form an effective communication.

Also, what you are stating would be meaningless in this scenario as my side of belief guarantees peace.
So, if its a trade between a part of intelligence for infinite peace, i am pretty sure you know which one people would choose.

I am glad that you are taking a scientific route on this discussion.
It's a good ponit of view.

Well, i am trying to reply to all messages before going to sleep, but people just keep replying.
Its 1:32 pm for me now, and I should better get sleeping soon.

Life is now a question mark?!

Someone is seriously debating if we need emotions!

Like emotions are detachable like a pen top.

Why have legs when he have cars now!?

The level of bullshit is unreal!

You are Emotions! And that is what it is to be a human.

How do you think people came to know about logic and matheatics in the first place?
Everything human has built was an inspiration from nature, building planes to mimic birds, and computers that can mimic brains.
Yes they were inspired by maths and logic, but math and logic were inspired by the human brain in the first place.

If we go to the root of all emotions and desires, we are not that different from robots. — Kinglord1090

We are a lot different than robots. And robots, remember, are a shabby imitation of ourselves, not the other way around.

The thing about emotions is that they are not a discrete function. They are integrated deeply into our thinking processes--so integrated that without emotion we wouldn't be doing much thinking. Emotion provides the motive power behind thinking. We engage in difficult problem solving because we have desires to solve problems, and find pleasure in doing so. Then there is fear driving us forward if we face a life-threatening problem.

Emotions become a problem when they are not regulated by reason. If something happens that "makes us angry" we can either allow anger to reckless rampage, or we can channel it into a socially tolerable form.

We can do without murderous road rage--absolutely.

@Kinglord1090
And what inspired maths and logic?

Clue,inspired.

Inspiration is intuition an emotion a desire.

All logic is from motives. And motives are desires.

Are you not motivated to use logic? Then you Desire logic.

Emotion,motive,desire is unassailable.

You are just proving my point further.
I said emotions 'were' necessary for survival. They are not anymore. And thats why we should get rid of them.
So, i dont need it to assist me by telling me to move out of the way of a train now.
But i would have needed it back when lions and mammoths existed as i would have no other way to determine the seriousness of a situation.
Well, thanks for that actually. You just made it easier for me.


"The argument seems to be 'my statements are incorrect' by arbitrary measure."
Isn't that exactly what you are doing as well?
That is how debates/discussions work, so I dont see anything wrong in this.
Also, if anything, everyone else is using arbitrary measures.
I have been using measures from correct sources and objective truth.
Its you guys who are basing it on personal belief and thinking i am wrong for having a different opinion.

I dont diagree with the notion that emotions play an important part in human life.
What I am saying is that that important part isnt enough to compete with eternal peace.

Yes, emotions are *one of* the foundation of our moral principles, but so is logic. — Kinglord1090

Why is it logical to refrain from causing suffering, if we can get away with it?

And logically speaking, it takes much less resources to not kill someone. — Kinglord1090

What if it saved resources by killing someone (for example the disabled that cannot contribute)?

Any why is it logical to preserve resources?

I dont understand how this has anything to do with the discussion.
You are just stating what emotions are.
Not how we should deal with them.

We dont need emotions to tell us how we are coping with stuff anymore.
In a world void of emotions, if someone borrows a car, and smashes it, he woul pay the money to repair it.
And the person the car blengs to will accept the money and repair it.
Which would be the most logical thing to do.
In this case, there would be no unncessary hate against someone and everything would be peaceful.

Please just leave.
I dont want to reply to you anymore.
You arent even ready to listen to any argument even if i give you proof and explanation.
If you didnt come in here with an open mind, then why even bother?

my side of belief guarantees peace.
So, if its a trade between a part of intelligence for infinite peace, i am pretty sure you know which one people would choose. — Kinglord1090

My view is that what you are calling emotions is based in logic itself. Let me explain. Let’s say I am a scientist and I generate a theory to explain some aspect of the world. I have tested my theory and so have others and it does a pretty good job of describing, predicting and organizing the phenomena. But there is a rival theory. It also has been tested and does a pretty good job of describing things. But the two theories describe the same events in different ways. They both use airtight logic , because of course all logic is is a kind of window dressing to make sure that one’s theory is internally consistent. Logic can’t tell you which theory to choose because you can’t simply read that off of the world. The world is amenable to an infinite variety of interpretations. The generating of a theory isn’t a logical endeavor , it’s an intuitive creative endeavor. Logic only comes into play after we have created the model. The violence between people isnt a result of the failure of logic, of irrationality. Both theories I described in my example are rational , they just use different frames of rationality. Most violence is the result of clashing rationalities , and clashing logics. You cannot get rid of the basis of emotion in humans because it resides in the subjectivity of how we interpret our world.
No airtight logic will protect us from
frustration , hostility , anxiety , guilt and sadness. In fact , airtight logic’s can get us into trouble because they prevent us from adapting to logics that are foreign to us.

It is the nature of experience that it is constantly overturning logics. The only way to eliminate emotion is to eliminate experience.

Please read the statement properly again.
It doesnt state that animals dont have emotions.
It states that their emotions are on the same level as humans.
Also, some animals, especially micro-organisms, dont have emotions at all, and yet they live their life without a reason to live.

@Kinglord1090

Are you getting emotional now!!!!

This whole thread is a self own. Ludicrous.

Your false choice between emotions and "world peace" is garbage,and ironically enough an appeal to Emotion!

Isnt that better tho?
Or would you rather live in a world with murder and crimes instead of choosing peace?

Yes they were inspired by maths and logic, but math and logic were inspired by the human brain in the first place. — Kinglord1090

One could say that math and logic were generated in human brains , but that’s very different from saying that we understood how the brain works. The calculating machine model of the brain that you prefer can be very useful in physics , which is field that rose up
simultaneously with logic and math, but has proved to be much less useful in understanding biological and psychological phenomena.

Eliminate experience for world peace!?

So who the hell experiences this world peace?
@Kinglord1090