• ltlee1
    45

    Implicit in you comment is that Chinese people are dumb. Hence they are willing to tolerate a government, however undemocratic, through thick and thin.

    Please think again. If you won't tolerate such a government, what make you think 1.4 billion Chinese will?
  • ltlee1
    45

    Of course one can pass any judgement as one sees fit. My question is this:
    Does he/she judge from a position of knowledge and expertise?
    Or does he/she judge from a position of ignorance?

    James Bovard, the author of "Attention Deficit Democracy" told the tales of American election is just reverse slave auction during which Americans are offered a choice between masters. I cannot tell whether James Bovard is totally right. However, I can say that he make the statement from a position of knowledge and expertise. After all, he is an America and he knows American people and politics well.
  • ltlee1
    45

    1. The US did not have opposition party at the beginning too. There were factions. Political parties was a later invention.
    2. Post war Japan is largely an one party system. It is out of power for only 6 years from a total of 70 years.
    3. Election is realistically speaking neither necessary nor sufficient for democracy. Not according to the Greeks. In addition, election did not confer the government the consent of the governed according to polls.
  • ltlee1
    45

    In the sense of no one should shout "Fire" in a crowded theater with normal movie goers. Harmony is important.
  • ltlee1
    45

    1. When is a dictatorship a dictatorship?
    Are you implying Chinese are dumb? Hence they live happily under dictatorship.
    2. Don't agree.
    3. "militaristic and aggressive in its rhetoric and foreign policy and expanionist."
    a. Every politicians make a lot noise. And it is their job to make a lot of noise to maximize China's gain.
    b. Expanionist? Had China fired any shot?
  • Apollodorus
    3.4k
    If you won't tolerate such a government, what make you think 1.4 billion Chinese will?ltlee1

    They may not know any better. If they have been under a dictatorship since 1949, then they have no standard of reference by which to judge that there are better alternatives.

    The dictatorship prevents the emergence of a political culture and consciousness that would result in an awareness of (1) alternatives and of (2) ways to realize them.

    A bit like a frog in a jar that is unaware of the existence of ponds, lakes, and other larger bodies of water where it may enjoy a greater supply of food, mating opportunities, and other advantages of a free existence.
  • Apollodorus
    3.4k
    Are you implying Chinese are dumb? Hence they live happily under dictatorship.ltlee1

    Not necessarily. However, it may be possible to reach that conclusion from the facts of the situation, as you yourself have just done.

    And yes, China is getting more and more aggressive and expansionist. It annexed Tibet in 1951. It tried to conquer India in 1962 and there have been border skirmishes ever since. It is currently planning to annex Taiwan and other places in the Pacific, and is building a corridor through Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey to get its hands on Mid East oil and attack Europe in preparation for invading America.

    So, lots parallelz nazi german, as you say.
  • ltlee1
    45

    Do you know that one billion of Chinese had travel outside of China during the last decade?
    And every years about 300,000 students had been studied in the US. About 100,000 more in the rest of the world. In general, I think Chinese know America and the rest of West well.

    Unfortunately, the opposite is not true.

    Regarding Tibet, it was recognized as part of China since all countries since the establishment of the ROC.
  • Apollodorus
    3.4k


    Regarding Tibet, China annexed it illegally. There was an uprising against China in 1959.

    https://freetibet.org/tibetan-uprising-1959

    It is obvious to anyone with even the most cursory knowledge of China that the regime has expansionist ambitions in the Pacific and has a clear plan to extend its influence into Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, and other parts of the Mid East to grab oil fields and use the region as a launching pad for attacks on Europe as a preliminary step to attacking America.

    Incidentally, it's a well-known fact that a lot of Chinese visitors to the West are spies and agents of the Communist Party sent by the regime for purposes of industrial espionage, infiltrating research universities, etc.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    Regarding Tibet, it was recognized as part of Chinaltlee1

    Disingenuous, vicious, toxic. Ultimately a lie told by a liar.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    b. Expansionist? Had China fired any shot?ltlee1
    Since ten minutes ago? Not that I know of. Before that, plenty of shots. Do you need a list? Are you completely ignorant? Or just a lying troll.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    Whether a country is democratic is for the people to decide.ltlee1

    And if it decides it's a biscuit?

    What (a) democracy is, is a matter of fact. Whether a country is a democracy is resolvable in appealing to what a democracy is, and then determining if or to what degree the country is democratic.

    Insofar as no modern country is a democracy, and likely no ancient country altogether a democracy, it remains to determine what is meant be saying that a country is, or is not, a democracy. Criteria are free, open, and fair elections, a system of laws that apply to everyone, representative of the people, and a settled form of government.

    We are not aware that China has free, open, and fair elections, or a system of laws that apply to everyone, or is representative of the people, or a settled from of government. Zero for four. Do you care to add more criteria?
  • Banno
    24.9k
    Implicit in you comment is that Chinese people are dumb.ltlee1

    That was not my intent. But it seems at the least that "Democracy" must mean somehting quite different in China than in Australia.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    Please think again. If you won't tolerate such a government, what make you think 1.4 billion Chinese will?ltlee1

    Maybe they remember Mao.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    That last comment concerning bats was unnecessarily offensive. Indeed, your replies here reinforce my growing view that you are incapable of seeing a situation from the perspective of another, or worse, simply unaware that things may seem different to other folk.

    China is an infant in terms of interference in other countries, compare to 'merica.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    Had China fired any shot?ltlee1

    One assumes the Chinese have an understanding of The Art of War. The deft annexation of the South China Sea was exemplary. The war has been won before the West noticed.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    China is an infant in terms of interference in other countries, compare to 'merica.Banno

    Modern China, maybe. But China by any name is still China, and they've been at it since well before Columbus discovered anything.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    To be fair, it was thought to be part of China, by the Chinese, for a rather long time. It was the Tibetans who differed.

    How would you react if the Mexicans took back Texas?
  • Banno
    24.9k
    Keep in mind the subjectification of China by Britain and the United States. It weighs heavily on Chinese foreign policy.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    To be fair, it was thought to be part of China, by the Chinese, for a rather long time. It was the Tibetans who differed.
    How would you react if the Mexicans took back Texas?
    Banno

    The Chinese have a long history of thinking a lot of places theirs.

    You didn't think your parallel through, did you. But as a New Englander, I have moments of thinking we should just give them Texas. I think in three years they beg us to take it back.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    I think in three years they beg us to take it back.tim wood

    Ceding Texas would be good for both the US and Mexico.

    America complaining about Chinese interference in other nations is deeply disingenuous. It's as if there were no recognition of their history.

    The Americans have a long history of thinking a lot of places theirs.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    Keep in mind the subjectification of China by Britain and the United States. It weighs heavily on Chinese foreign policy.Banno
    No argument from me. On the other hand, those Chinese are smart fellows. There may be symbolic "weight," suitable to dress up ceremonial invective, but I doubt they give it much actual weight. At the least they seem to be forward-looking for the most part, not backwards.
  • bert1
    2k
    Whether a country is democratic is for the people to decide.ltlee1

    :scratches head:
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    America complaining about Chinese interference in other nations is deeply disingenuous. It's as if there were no recognition of their history.

    The Americans have a long history of thinking a lot of places theirs.
    Banno

    Your point? And the US has little history of thinking other places theirs. Rather instead the US has thought that it had interests in other places, which interests were thought to need protecting. Sometimes even altogether legitimately.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    The topic of this thread is the nature of Chinese democracy. The article in the OP is an obvious puff-piece, but a starting point. @ltlee1's participation here is welcome, and important if we are to develop any understanding of what "democracy" might be from a Chinese perspective.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    's examples of Chinese interference are trivial in comparison with those of the US over the last fifty years.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    Fifty years? Since 1971? Have to call you out, here.
  • Banno
    24.9k
    And the US has little history of thinking other places theirs.tim wood


    Manifest Destiny
  • Banno
    24.9k
    Fifty years? Since 1971? Have to call you out, here.tim wood

    OK, it goes back much further than that.
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