What's wrong with antisemitism? Why can't I be racist? Why can't we have a Nazi speak at my campus?

Do something different, like what's with hurricanes? They're deadly and no one does anything about it.

Nobody cares that most of the earth's biomass is ants. Why is this accepted? Whyyyyyyyyy?

Exactly the kind of response you expect on this issue.

It's not actually ants, tho.

Can a male be turned into a female? How?

Can a male have a period and give birth?

Has reality changed since I was born?

Sex is a compound attribute.

Chromosomal sex is not the entirety of sex. There’s also hormonal sex and anatomical sex. If anything, anatomical sex is the original referent of the word, from before we knew anything about hormones or chromosomes. And there are some people naturally born with a chromosomal sex that differs from their hormonal or anatomical sex (women AFAB but with XY chromosomes), and everyone has always referred to them by their anatomical sex (as we usually don’t know anything but anatomical sex about anyone).

Hormonal and genital sex can be changed already, and it’s only a matter of time before chromosomal sex can be changed too (hello CRISPR).

How is it possible.
It isn't from a scientific perspective. How has it become so accepted as a concept? — Andrew4Handel

Let's walk through this. Presumably, sex is a matter of chromosomes (it's not exactly; but that's close enough for government work). So let's call a person who is XY male-sexed, and a person who is XX female-sexed.

Now let's define a sex change in these terms. A sex change would be a change in the chromosomes from XY to XX, or XX to XY. This is what you're claiming is not possible. I'll presume by possible you're referring to something like technological feasibility.

How has it become so accepted as a concept? — Andrew4Handel

...and here we fail. It doesn't appear that it is technologically feasible to change a person from male-sexed to female-sexed.

So, maybe you're going to have to explain this to me. What impossible thing are you referring to that is accepted as a concept?

Presumably, sex is a matter of chromosomes — InPitzotl

No. I have never needed to know about someone's chromosomes to know whether they are male or female.

There are huge number of things that define someone as a woman. Wearing make up and dresses is not one of them.

No. I have never needed to know about someone's chromosomes to know whether they are male or female. — Andrew4Handel

Okay, so how do you tell?

How is it possible.

It isn't from a scientific perspective. How has it become so accepted as a concept? — Andrew4Handel

Scientifically, there is a difference between a male who has had surgery to appear female and who is taking female hormones versus one who has not.

Why would you only recognize distinctions that occur only at birth and not those through human effort.

Seems arbitrary.

Chromosomal sex is not the entirety of sex — Pfhorrest

Who claimed that it was?

Having surgery to mutilate your genitalia and spending a life time on wrong sex hormones and other body damaging chemicals is not changing sex it is forcing your body to be something it doesn't want to be and once hormones stop it will revert back to it's natural self.

These surgeries (in my opinion) are Frankenstein surgeries and abusive. people who have had their breasts or penis removed and then detransition cannot replace them. The rate of detransition has risen with the rate of trans acceptance.

I think humans each have a dominant soul out of our many internal parts that is either male or female. People might say I'm being to philosophically Platonic in that respect, but I have to draw the line somewhere

You cannot tell the difference between a man or a woman.? I have always been able to tell I use my ears. I can also tell when someone has had "gender reassignment"

The fact that to "pass" as the opposite sex requires numerous surgeries and a life time on medication shows that you cannot become the opposite sex through wishful thinking. You have to rely on unethical surgeons and big pharma. It is a money making scam that is undermining gender non conformity, women and gays. Instead of pray the gay away it is now trans the gay away.

But where is the philosophy in this? Who has defended this sex change magic?

How can it be ethical to chop off healthy breasts and penises?

Having surgery to mutilate your genitalia and spending a life time on wrong sex hormones and other body damaging chemicals is not changing sex it is forcing your body to be something it doesn't want to be and once hormones stop it will revert back to it's natural self. — Andrew4Handel

If your body "wants" high levels of blood sugar, should you modify it with insulin injections only to watch it revert to its natural diabetic state as God, blessed be He, intended it once you cleanse it of the unnatural synthetic insulin?

This conversation will come down to what you think is a healthy state, with the final question being who gets to decide how they wish to live their lives, you or the affected person.

Having surgery to mutilate your genitalia and spending a life time on wrong sex hormones and other body damaging chemicals is not changing sex it is forcing your body to be something it doesn't want to be and once hormones stop it will revert back to it's natural self. — Andrew4Handel

Having such surgeries is scientifically possible; but since when is bodies wanting to be things scientific?

You cannot tell the difference between a man or a woman.? — Andrew4Handel

Not always.

I have always been able to tell I use my ears. I can also tell when someone has had "gender reassignment" — Andrew4Handel

That sounds anecdotal, not scientific. Silly me, but by your OP I thought you were complaining about the acceptance of something that was scientifically impossible.

How can it be ethical to chop off healthy breasts and penises? — Andrew4Handel

Breast reduction and enhancement surgeries occur in contexts other than in transsexual situations. Do you object to those?

Instead of pray the gay away it is now trans the gay away. — Andrew4Handel

Trans people aren't necessarily gay.

Why would you only recognize distinctions that occur only at birth and not those through human effort. — Hanover

It is not a distinction it is a case of natural and artificial. I think pretending to be the opposite sex is a lie. Prove me otherwise That is the human effort. It is like camouflage. A woman is not something superficial but a biological reality and the reason we are all here because only women can gestate, and give birth

Some trans people have claimed they wish they could have abortions, they enjoy being catcalled because it validates their woman hood they have stated an array of sexist ideas about women hood that I can freely quote. It is clearly a fantasy that can never be achieved but based on misogyny but also women who want to be men are often trying to escape misogyny and the abuse they faced as women

Trans people aren't necessarily gay. — Hanover

Most of the Iranian transsexuals are and most detransitioned women are lesbians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_Iran#Forced_surgery_for_homosexual_people


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg51RnpGn9k

It isn't from a scientific perspective. How has it become so accepted as a concept? — Andrew4Handel

"Woman" and "female" are words and can be redefined any time standard usage changes. If enough people accept people born as biological males who identify themselves as females as women, then they will be. That battle is being fought vigorously on the political, legal, and social front right now.

There is a recognized psychological diagnosis - gender dysphoria - in which a person born with one biological sex feels as though they are the other. It's certainly debatable, but recognizing them as such is not necessarily unreasonable.

It certainly hasn't gone that far yet, but the legal and social differences between women and men have become less prominent, less important during my lifetime. On the other hand, there are still times when the distinction is very important, e.g. women and men often have to be treated differently medically. Even so, It's not as big a deal what people call themselves as it once was. Some people, maybe even I, might say "Who cares." Others, maybe even you, might say "I care a lot."

Exactly the kind of response you expect on this issue. — Andrew4Handel

I suspect it was exactly the kind of response you were hoping for.

Breast reduction and enhancement surgeries occur in contexts other than in transsexual situations. Do you object to those? — Hanover

A double mastectomy is not a a breast reduction. It is breast annihilation and when performed on young women can lead to chronic pain in later life. Hysterectomies increase the risk of Alzheimer's, heart attacks and osteoporosis.

Plastic surgery has often been abused (Michael Jackson/Joycelyn Wildenstein) not all surgery is therapeutic or life saving.

The only reason trans surgeries are seen as life saving is because they are seen to prevent suicides but little to none of the literature supports that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771004/

It's certainly debatable, but recognizing them as such is not necessarily unreasonable. — T Clark

It is reality denying. It is unscientific. It prioritises peoples mental states over reality. We don't apply this "logic" in many areas of life.

Are gender qualities defined by physical attributes only, or does it require auxiliary qualities such as psychological attributes too?

Haven't you seen sissies in male bodies and a butch in female bodies? Even in this forum, don't you see
examples of people who would normally be considered as grown men (age factor), acting like sissies with their hissy fits, when they go around trolling others? These are not very 'manlike' qualities now are they?

When you take into account factors like the above, and other markers like psychological dispositions, conduct etc., you might want to re-consider how you define and separate the sex.I sure am having a hard time deciding on some of the posters/trolls here.

I have always been able to tell I use my ears. I can also tell when someone has had "gender reassignment"
— Andrew4Handel
That sounds anecdotal, not scientific — InPitzotl

In what sense is it anecdotal? I have survived 45 years using my ears and eyes to tell me how reality works. I am not going to distrust my senses based on someone else's self i.d. in their mind.

I thought gender dysphoria was a mental illness now we are told it's not these people are really trapped in the wrong body and being liberated by surgeons and big pharma.

Stopping a child achieving puberty and making them infertile is now liberation theology.

A better question would be why the contents of other people's underpants cause folk such as you so much grief.

It seems to me that whether it is metaphysically possible to change one's sex depends on whether one's sex is determined in part by a historical property.

It seems to me that we can distinguish four broad views about sex (scope for lots of disagreement within these):

A) Physicalism about sex

One's sex is constitutively determined by sets of physical features.

B) Subjectivism about sex

One's sex is constitutively determined by subjective features (one's attitudes etc).

C) Pluralism about sex

One's sex is constitutively determined by bundles of features that include - or can include - both subjective and physical properties.

D) Historicism about sex

One's sex is constitutively determined at a particular time and is fixed thereafter. So, on this view, there is a 'baptismal' point at which, due to satisfying the conditions of one of either A, B or C, you are sex X, Y, or neither. And that's what you are thereafter.

To clarify: take a genuine Leonardo da Vinci. What makes it a Leonardo da Vinci? Well, it possesses a historical property: Leonardo da Vinci painted it. And that's why an exact replica won't qualify, no matter that it possesses all the same current-time-slice properties.

If either of A or B or C is true, then one's sex can be changed. Exactly what it would take to change it would, of course, be determined by the substance of A, B or C.

But if D is true, then changing one's sex would require undoing the past. And that seems like something only God could do.

So, does sex have a historical component? I have to say, my own intuitions say that it doesn't. "I used to be a woman, but now I am a man" does not sound confused (whereas "this used to be a Leonardo da Vinci, but now it is a Rubens" does).

Haven't you seen sissies in male bodies and a butch in female bodies? — skyblack

This is a result of sexism

Men are considered effeminate for not acting macho, women are considered butch for not acting girly.

Women are not camp men and men are not butch lesbians. Gender non conformity should not lead to genital mutilation and a life time on chemicals.

A better question would be why the contents of other people's underpants cause folk such as you so much grief. — Banno

I am concerned about the erosion of women's rights, gay erasure, suppression of gender non conformity, life altering surgeries leading to a life time of health care etc not what is in someone's pants. Most trans people do not pass ( I have known four) I don't need to look in peoples underwear. The one's that pass are a luck minority. Elliot page looks unhappy and awful yet is being affirmed by people for what has happened to they.

How is it possible. — Andrew4Handel

There are two kinds of sex - mental and physical. That mental sex is real is evidenced by transgenders (mismatch between mental and physical sex). Sex change is limited to the physical and, interestingly, a transgender will request that faer body be modified to match faer mental sex. I've never heard of any transgender requesting the opposite - reprogramming faer mind to match faer body. In other words, mental sex trumps physical sex i.e. a person's true sex is faer mental sex. I can pick up the telltale signs of a paradox - that transgenders exist implies that sex is mental but that they want a sex change implies that their main concern is physical sex! Go figure!

This is a result of sexism

Men are considered effeminate for not acting macho, women are considered butch for not acting girly.

Women are not camp men and men are not butch lesbians. Gender non conformity should not lead to genital mutilation and a life time on chemicals. — Andrew4Handel

The point was, one has to reconsider their definitions on how you separate or define the sex's. Taking into account the associated psychological and conduct requirements. Case in point, some of the forum members.

There are two kinds of sex - mental and physical. — TheMadFool

I completely disagree. Who has discovered this "mental sex". By mental do you mean immaterial?

Before the discovery of hormones and extensive advances in plastic surgery there was no way to live other than in the body you were born in. There is no evidence of mass trans suicides before they could get surgery and hormones.

This mental sex appears to consists of an array of stereotypes about the opposite sex. Men and women's dress and roles has varied throughout time and culture.