See my previous post. In any case, Hamas is violating the laws of war by firing rockets from within residential areas leaving Israel in a terrible position. These are not different countries - Gaza is not a country. It is a self-governing territory.



I agree I'd be totally down with a cease fire.

agree I'd be totally down with a cease fire. — BitconnectCarlos

It'll come. BTW, if the US was in Israel's shoes, they'd obliterate Hamas. Completely.

Yeah I was thinking something similar. I couldn't imagine the US tolerating rocket attacks on US citizens with their homes being bombed and neighborhoods destroyed. There'd be some major hell to pay for the aggressor.

The Israeli army withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and there aren't any settlements there either.

I thought Hamas was a terrorist group. As such it would make sense that they do not follow the laws of war (which is, in itself, an entertaining concept). I also agree that the US would invade and go building to building removing the aggressor.

I hope everyone in British, Spanish, French, and other descended countries know the irony of the criticisms of imperialism. I guess it’s only ok if done before the 20th century? I believe Australia had a policy for “hunting” aborigine into the 20th century. Hey guys.. it's okay.. just "history" if done before the 20th century when YOUR ancestors benefited from it :lol:. You get to make up for it by being a human rights zealot now :roll:.

Yes Hamas is a terrorist group. They are also the sole governing power in Gaza which is a self-governing territory. They were voted into power after the Israeli's withdrew in 2005 and have been in power ever since.

That's all it's about: Accepting our right to exist. — BitconnectCarlos

That's simply nonsense.

You just admitted here that Palestinians are genocidal, so given that you've already accepted that, why should the Jews be willing to negotiate with a group who wants them dead? — BitconnectCarlos

That's like saying Native Americans were genocidal -- so why should the colonists negotiate with them?

I suspect you're willfully ignoring both history and current reality.

That's simply nonsense. — Xtrix

That's the crux of it. Everything else is peripheral. This has been going on since ancient times. Plenty of posters here - Streetlight, 180, among others refuse to accept Israel's right to exist. Hamas, the governing power of Gaza, refuses to accept Israel's right to exist and refuses to negotiate or compromise with Israel. How do you make peace under those terms?

Come to the bargaining table with us and we'll talk. We've withdrawn settlements and forces in the past and we'll do it again, just be civil.

Plenty of posters here - Streetlight, 180, among others refuse to accept Israel's right to exist. — BitconnectCarlos

Interesting how the opposition to Israeli genocide is translated by you as a denial of its right to exist. Is the implication that Israel's existence is premised on genocide?

That's the crux of it. Everything else is peripheral. This has been going on since ancient times. Plenty of posters here - Streetlight, 180, among others refuse to accept Israel's right to exist. — BitconnectCarlos

No, this is simply nonsense. This is a claim used over and over again to justify a brutal occupation. Israel has rejected the international consensus for years, the power balance isn't anywhere close to equal, and it's had the backing of the United States for decades.

Come to the bargaining table with us and we'll talk. We've withdrawn settlements and forces in the past and we'll do it again, just be civil. — BitconnectCarlos

Could have ended with Sadat in '71. What happened then? Or in Taba? Were they not asked politely enough?

Interesting how the opposition to Israeli genocide is translated by you as a denial of its right to exist. Is the implication that Israel's existence is premised on genocide? — StreetlightX

We're at $100 now.

Hey its your cash, happy to have you part with it for genocide.

You just admitted here that Palestinians are genocidal — BitconnectCarlos

No I didn’t? Wtf? “Terrorized in self defense” as in the Israelis are terrorizing them and claiming it’s self defense. Cognitive bias at its finest.

Hamas is genocidal sure. But are you seriously comparing Israel to a terrorist organization? That’s telling.

And why can't Palestine's Arab neighbors absorb them as immigrants? — BitconnectCarlos

Why can’t the Jews go elsewhere? For the same reason you just stated:

We're here and we're not going anywhere. — BitconnectCarlos

It’s not as simple as “Move to another country duh, and we’re just going to keep murdering you in the meantime”.

I can’t believe you seriously suggested that the inhabitants of the country you don’t like should just move away, while defending Israel........ If you don’t accept that the Jews should move away why should the Palestinians? They were there first you know (that Jews were there 5000 years ago doesn’t matter)

The Arab countries just don't care about the Palestinians and that not Israel's problem. — BitconnectCarlos

Not accepting an entire country’s population into your own to save them from genocide = don’t care about said population.

Ok buddy.

If you're a Palestinian then I'm sorry your fellow Arabs have failed you. — BitconnectCarlos

I’m not. But again, are you seriously suggesting that the solution to the genocide is that the entire population should leave their homes and move away? Why shouldn’t the Jews be the ones to do that?

Some advice - we're going to have to be willing to put these blood feuds behind us if our groups want to make peace. — BitconnectCarlos

I’m not Palestinian... Just someone who’s not completely biased. Check this thread. It seems the only person defending Israel is the Jewish guy. And anyone who’s not Jewish thinks what’s happening is atrocious.

Rockets are being fired into Israel from residential areas which basically forces Israel to respond by striking residential areas. — BitconnectCarlos

Except it’s more like: Entire residential areas are getting leveled because Israel heard a Muslim there possessed a pocket knife.

5000 vs 30 dead to missiles. Who does it seem to you is doing the “self defense” here? The side that lost 30 or the side that lost 5000?

It’s ridiculous to think that these missiles are defensive. It’s just an excuse to kill.

Arab world which has accepted their right to exist so it is possible. — BitconnectCarlos

More like “was forced to accept their existence because they’re backed by the US and so couldn’t be displaced”

Of the Arabs only the diplomats think Israel is legitimate.

This thread is really ugly, the usual suspects are really just going hard on the name-calling, insults and hyperbole. Just like the Trump thread a while back, I do more or less agree with their main view. In this case, Israel is an apartheid state, centred around the idea of being a "Jewish" state. The evidence on their systematic oppression and institutionalised racism is crystal clear. "Self-defence" can't be the label given to a one-sided massacre and it's not as though Israel isn't partaking in the escalation which gets things to the level of violence. One doesn't need to know "all the facts" to come to these conclusions.

Nonetheless, we've got posters in this thread who have little interest in doing anything except feigning moral indignation, virtue signalling and just trying to drag others through the mud. There are some interesting conversations to be had about this situation and you'd think a philosophy forum might discuss them but this thread is about as bad as it gets. The very same people who are generally being retards on this forum, back at it again, many of them moderators - or at least streetlightx.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/480/site-guidelines

The guidelines on this site are a complete farce. No need to like me or care about what I think, just read the guidelines and try to match them to this thread to see its quality.

States do not have a right to exist.

Well, apparently, it's written in very old magic books that some do. And plenty of folks are under the infantilizing spell of such magic books. So much certainty, so much murder. You know what Voltaire says, comrade ... :point:

Plenty of posters here - Streetlight, 180, among others refuse to accept Israel's right to exist.
— BitconnectCarlos

Interesting how the opposition to Israeli genocide is translated by you as a denial of its right to exist. Is the implication that Israel's existence is premised on genocide? — StreetlightX

And that ergo any state's "existence" "premised on genocide" forfeits "its right to exist"? (Sweet fuckin' Jeezus, a categorical imperative!) This makes the Palestinians today's "Canaanites" in Bibi's "Joshua" cosplay. Bitcunt probably has no fuckin' clue he's been making Ahmadinejad's case by shadowboxing with his strawmen while making vacuous excuses for continued, incremental genocide.

Nonetheless, we've got posters in this thread who have little interest in doing anything except feigning moral indignation, virtue signalling and just trying to drag others through the mud. — Judaka

Here's a thought: just because you are incapable of sympathy doesn't mean everyone incapable of it, and therefore are "virtue signalling" or "feigning moral indignation".

This thread is really ugly, the usual suspects are really just going hard on the name-calling, insults and hyperbole. — Judaka

Looks like the veracity of my comment here strikes again.

This thread is really ugly, the usual suspects are really just going hard on the name-calling, insults and hyperbole. Just like the Trump thread a while back,I do more or less agree with their main view. In this case, Israel is an apartheid state, centred around the idea of being a "Jewish" state. The evidence on their systematic oppression and institutionalised racism is crystal clear. "Self-defence" can't be the label given toa one-sided massacre and it's not as though Israel isn't partaking in the escalation which gets things to the level of violence. One doesn't need to know "all the facts" to come to these conclusions.

Nonetheless, we've got posters in this thread who have little interest in doing anything except feigning moral indignation, virtue signalling and just trying to drag others through the mud. There are some interesting conversations to be had about this situation and you'd think a philosophy forum might discuss them but this thread is about as bad as it gets. The very same people who are generally being retards on this forum, back at it again, many of them moderators - or at least streetlightx.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/480/site-guidelines

The guidelines on this site are a complete farce. No need to like me or care about what I think, just read the guidelines and try to match them to this thread to see its quality. — Judaka

Look at what they say in the first paragraph (my bolded emphasis): "yes Israel is an apartheid state, yes Israel engages in systematic oppression and institutionalized racism" etc. ..then looks at who they critically target (my italicized emphasis), "This thread is really ugly. The usual suspects are really just going hard on the name-calling, insults and hyperbole." Not people defending or unconcerned for moral atrocities that they agree are immoral!, but people saying mean things to others. That's liberalism folks. All about tone, not content.

That's liberalism folks. All about tone, not content. — Maw

:100:

This thread is really ugly ... — Judaka

It's a thing of sheer groin-aching beauty compared to the latest historical atrocity unfolding in real-time which many here are grappling with. Perspective, friend; fallacious bullshit, not passions, are beneath dialectics.

People support Israel? What a surprise. Oh, wait, no it's not, you're already aware that hundreds of millions of people across the globe support Israel. Do you actually believe your actions here make even a tiny difference? That if you berate the handful of people here to disagree with you that you're going to change their minds - or even anything at all? If you were even trying to change their minds, you wouldn't talk the way you talk. This is the crux of the problem, this false pretence, the only thing you're doing here is stroking your own ego, virtue signalling and acting a fool.

The people who support Israel may be ignorant, or even willfully ignorant or maybe it's something more insidious. I already made my opinion on the matter clear, what do you want me to do? Join in with you and berate any poster who dares to argue something I disagree with on a sensitive matter? Sympathy? Are you sympathising with the Palestinians because of what Israel is doing or because literally 2-4 people on an obscure philosophy forum think it might be justified?

I am a mixed race Brit. I support Israel 1000%

Countries are fictional human inventions created by force. The Arab-Israeli conflict shows what happens when people refuse to acknowledge a countries validity. You can only resolve a countries identity through force and survival of the fittest.

And finally parents are the only cause of a child's suffering. No one can blame anyone else for a parent having a child in a war zone.

That girl is an actress and you are calling for the extinction of Israel.

Idiot, moron, nincompoop.

@Maw how am I doing? I am sympathetic to Palestinians and here's the proof.

This what UAE official has to say on the conflict:

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/1621075141-report-uae-demands-hamas-stop-rockets-attacks-or-face-halt-in-investments

"If Hamas does not commit to complete calm, it is dooming the residents of the Strip to a life of suffering. Its leaders must understand that their policies are first and foremost hurting the people of Gaza.”

Is that your idea of an argument?

People In Gaza have deliberately had large Families to try and outnumber the Jews. That is a fact. That is child abuse. Land is a limited resource and it has been deliberately over populated inevitably leading to conflict.

First of all stop stealing more land. — Manuel

"Property is theft"

Complete and utter lies. Shame on you!

If you were even trying to change their minds, you wouldn't talk the way you talk. This is the crux of the problem — Judaka

All about tone, not content. — Maw

hmmm

Are you sympathising with the Palestinians because of what Israel is doing or because literally 2-4 people on an obscure philosophy forum think it might be justified? — Judaka

You just articulated sympathy with Palestinian plight here. So what excludes you from this psycho-analysis of intent or are you just more upset by people calling others by mean names over people denying apartheid, moral atrocity, etc. ?