Fallacy Fallacy

TheMadFool

Many suns ago, I read a comic strip where there's this superhero (Fallacy Man his name was if I recall correctly) whose superpower is detecting fallacies. He goes around from place to place looking for people arguing and whenever one of them commits a fallacy, he immediately names the fallacy - I suppose this is meant to be interpreted as a "victory" of good (rationality) over evil (irrationality).

One day Fallacy Man happens to come across two boys engaged in a hated argument and he swoops in (he flies too) and carefully listens in on the debate. Soon he spots a fallacy and hastily cries out, "<insert your favorite fallacy> fallacy." One of the boys, responds calmly, "fallacy fallacy" and thus ends the exciting but rather brief nevertheless heroic life of Fallacy Man.

The fallacy fallacy: The mistake of thinking/inferring that the conclusion of an argument is false because it contains a fallacy.

Comments...

Amalac

↪TheMadFool

Well, there's not much to say, is there?

A fallacious argument doesn't necessarily have a false conclusion, but it gives no good reason to believe its conclusion, even if it were true, because it's fallacious.

Hanover

The fallacy fallacy fallacy: The mistake of thinking/inferring that the conclusion of an argument is false because you think it contains a fallacy but then think it didn't but it did.

TheMadFool

Well, there's not much to say, is there?

A fallacious argument doesn't necessarily have a false conclusion, but it gives no good reason to believe its conclusion, even if it were true, because it's fallacious. — Amalac

The fallacy fallacy fallacy: The mistake of thinking/inferring that the conclusion of an argument is false because you think it contains a fallacy but then think it didn't but it did. — Hanover

Fallacies, by definition, are about what logicians seem to refer to as inferential link between premises and conclusion. Fallacies are weaknesses/failures in the inferential link - the necessity/probability of the conclusion, given the premises.

The fallacy fallacy is exactly that in the sense one isn't warranted to infer the conclusion of an argument is false given the argument is fallacious. The conclusion maybe true and is in need of the right argument even though the one offered is no good, is fallacious.

T Clark

The fallacy fallacy: The mistake of thinking/inferring that the conclusion of an argument is false because it contains a fallacy. — TheMadFool

This probably isn't what you were had in mind, but I think many of the arguments identified as logical fallacies are legitimate arguments. Example - appeal to authority. I believe that the general relativity is a correct method for describing gravity because Einstein and many other physicists say so.

TonesInDeepFreeze

I think many of the arguments identified as logical fallacies are legitimate arguments. Example - appeal to authority. I believe that the general relativity is a correct method for describing gravity because Einstein and many other physicists say so. — T Clark

They're informal fallacies, so there's wiggle room. Sometimes citing authority is reasonable in argument and other times not very reasonable, depending on context and specifics.

TheMadFool

The fallacy fallacy fallacy — Hanover

This would be, for me, the fallacy committed by the fallacy fallacy by wrongly assuming fallacies are about the truth value of the conclusion rather than a flaw in the logical connection between premises and conclusion.

When I point out a fallacy, I don't/shouldn't make the claim that the conclusion is false; all I'm justified in doing is to point out that the conclusion is either not necessary or not probable given the premises - the support (premises) for a proposition (conclusion) is either weak or simply nonexistent/imagined.

TonesInDeepFreeze

A common misuse of "I call fallacy" occurs sometimes when a person cites ad hominem. One can pile all kinds of insult on another but alongside give a good argument for one's position on an issue. Insulting someone is not necessarily the ad hominem fallacy. It's only the ad hominem fallacy when the insult is supposed to be part of supporting the argument on the matter under contention. Saying "ad hominem" sometimes itself is a fallacy - the strawman - when it is meant to discredit an argument that does not rely on ad hominem but that was accompanied by insults. Also, sometimes a person's character is itself the matter under contention.

TheMadFool

appeal to authority — T Clark

↪TonesInDeepFreeze

I'm quite wary of authority especially because of its association with appeal to force. A better word, a more apt category, with the same role but infinitely more reliable would be experts. Appeal to experts sounds, feels just about right if you ever want to defer to someone else's words/opinions/views.

A common misuse of "I call fallacy" occurs sometimes when a person cites ad hominem. One can pile all kinds of insult on another but alongside give a good argument for one's position on an issue. Insulting someone is not necessarily the ad hominem fallacy. It's only the ad hominem fallacy when the insult is supposed to be part of supporting the argument on the matter under contention. Saying "ad hominem" sometimes itself is a fallacy - the strawman - when it is meant to discredit an argument that does not rely on ad hominem but that was accompanied by insults. Also, sometimes a person's character is itself the matter under contention. — TonesInDeepFreeze

How right you are! :ok:

James Riley

The mistake of thinking/inferring that the conclusion of an argument is false because it contains a fallacy. — TheMadFool

It's a mistake to believe that noting a fallacy concludes the argument. Fallacy man swoops in, notes the fallacy, one of the boys says "fallacy fallacy" and fallacy man responds "I didn't say your fallacy should stop the argument. By all means, continue. And I shall continue to moderate in case you screw up a third time. Now carry on."

TheMadFool

It's a mistake to believe that noting a fallacy concludes the argument. Fallacy man swoops in, notes the fallacy, one of the boys says "fallacy fallacy" and fallacy man responds "I didn't say your fallacy should stop the argument. By all means, continue. And I shall continue to moderate in case you screw up a third time. Now carry on. — James Riley

Well, the point of Fallacy man's highly informative albeit short tale is simply to make the reader cognizant of what fallacies truly are - weaknesses in the argument and doesn't/can't help in determinimg the falsehood of the conclusion.

James Riley

Well, the point of Fallacy man's highly informative albeit short tale is simply to make the reader cognizant of what fallacies truly are - weaknesses in the argument and doesn't/can't help in determinimg the falsehood of the conclusion. — TheMadFool

I got that, but my Fallacy Man is a super hero and would not be taken down by a mere boy. My Fallacy Man continues on the road of correction! :starstruck: :nerd: :strong:

TheMadFool

I got that, but my Fallacy Man is a super hero and would not be taken down by a mere boy. My Fallacy Man continues on the road of correction! :starstruck: :nerd: :strong: — James Riley

Amen!

baker

The fallacy fallacy: The mistake of thinking/inferring that the conclusion of an argument is false because it contains a fallacy.

Comments... — TheMadFool

It makes sense to call something out as a fallacy provided that the other person handed in their text as the final version, the final product of their reasoning.

This is mostly not the case in forum discussions like this, which, whether people acknowledge it or not, are often a collaborative effort where many or all the posters involved are still looking for and working on their final version of the argument, so that the discussion is primarily a process of testing for errors and making corrections.

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