Capitalism is despicable. A large-scale robbery. The rich are getting richer and are doing their best to steal more from the poor. A country in which the salary of a waiter depends on tips is a despicable country. — gikehef947

I agree with you. But the poor are not getting poorer. On the long run anyhow. People in highly capitalist countries enjoy a better lifestyle than in non-capitalist countries. So while the distribution of wealth is highly uneven, it is still more equitable and fair than in any country in the world, except another capitalist country.

Sorry for the delay in response. I was told that meditation is like exercise. It about gaining control. Trying to find altered states through it might not be a good idea.

If you can reference the article, that might help. — schopenhauer1

The article is written from a perspective favoring Tibetan Buddhism. This is a relatively small Buddhist school, but probably the most popular one in the West, due to the visibility of the Dalai Lama.
The Buddhist concepts spoken of in that article are specific to Tibetan Buddhism, or, at most, to Mahayana Buddhism at large. But this is not all that Buddhism is about, and it certainly isn't the Buddhism of the foundational Buddhist scriptures, the Pali Canon.
So it's hard to comment on the article in any detail without going into doctrinal differences between the various Buddhist schools (which is just too much for a forum thread like this).

it certainly isn't the Buddhism of the foundational Buddhist scriptures, the Pali Canon. — baker

Latter schools are defined by their ethos as rebellion against traditionalism Buddhism. This happens in all religions

I think meditation IS the path, you are absolutely right about that. But what every Buddhist believes (if they actually follow The Buddha) is that human needs are the path to suffering. To eliminate suffering therefore you must eliminate the feeling of the needs --

Am I right in this assessment of Buddhist ideology at its most basic? — god must be atheist

I am certain no Buddhist scholar (as a matter of fact, being a Zen student, I have attempted to avoid the intellectualism as much as possible) but I believe what you are getting at is that the Buddha taught that desire is is the cause of suffering and the way to extinguish suffering is eliminate desire. There are mountains of books written about this with various subtle interpretations, but this is the basic idea.

If yes, then you reveal that meditation is a path, a service route to eliminate the feeling of needs. Meditation reveals to you the clarity of how to achieve a life without needs. — god must be atheist

Basically, but there's a lot more to it. What you receive through meditation is the ability to realize (very different than intellectual understanding). It is the realization to leads to wisdom, that is, seeing things for what they truly are instead of what your thinking tells you is true.

If no, you don't agree that the most basic tenet of Buddhism is that needs create suffering, then I'm really interested in what you think Buddhist ideology is at its most basic. — god must be atheist

Needs can be very different than desires. For example, the great desire to transcend is the desire for life itself. It is only when you really accept (understand, or better, realize) death can you begin to live.

Remember, meditation is not an ideology, it's a path. A method. A tool. It is not what meditation does that I wish you can tell me. I wish you could tell me what you believe the basic ideology of Buddha's beliefs is, if different form "needs create suffering, and you must eliminate needs." — god must be atheist

One of the most important lessons that very few Buddhists (or Zen students) really learn (and I mean REALLY learn) is that all of the words are meaningless. It is only the practice of meditation that is important. The words are only meant to point the way to meditation.

I could give the best explanation the world has ever experienced and it would still be total non-sense. Having said that, let me say the following :) ....

Again, it is that desire (intellectualization) creates all suffering. All things come and go. When we attach to thought/feelings, the suffering ensues when the object of our desire no longer exists. It can be something good or bad, and produce all kinds of feelings (the most obvious and destructive being anger).

Cease the intellectualization and your attachments fall away (and with it goes your suffering). This is not to imply that you stop thinking because we obviously need to do this to live in the world. Uncluttered by all kinds of extraneous thoughts, the mind works MUCH better, seeing things much closer to the way they truly are. It's the real deal.

Buddhism is not a religion. Please don't compare it to religions. I mean, you can, but I, for one, resent it if you do. — god must be atheist

Sorry, but I cannot be responsible for your feelings.

I choose to think of religion as the intellectualization of spirituality, so Buddhism is certainly a religion. And it's actually a very nice religion, if you happen to be into that sort of thing. Very positive, upbeat, good people trying to do good things.

Like I always say, get more than two people together and all Hell breaks loose.

Actually (and although capitalism has its issues), it's an amazing productive system that creates the most opportunity for the most people. Plus, it's the only economic system there is. See if you can come up with a better one!

There will always be some capitalism, as there will always be struggle (suffering). That's the way it is. A "better option" is socialism where materialism slows down. People say socialism doesn't work very well but that's the whole point. Too much riches causes too many problems in another way

How much socialism would you like? Isn't paying over 50% of your income in taxes enough? How poor would you like to be?

Plus, socialism comes with an incredible amount of baggage (massive corruption).

Like good ole Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism works great until you run out of other people's money."

It's not "other peoples'" money. They live in society

There will never be paradise in this universe. You can't find "no suffering" as long as you breath. To suffer is to struggle and to struggle is good. To suffer is to find happiness, because world is astathmeta/anepikrita as the Greeks said, which best stated as phenomena in modern times. Kant and German idealists lived well because they said world was becoming (a horrid word though, phenomena being better) but keep intellectualizing, therefore reducing there suffering through the suffering of thought

It always comes down to the individual v. the community. I believe you will find that the most "together" individuals make for the best communities. When the balance of power tips away from the individual, the scoundrels come out of the woodwork and another Hell-on-Earth is well on the way.

There is corruption when there are too many rich people as well. Capitalists say their right to money is absolute, but what of hippies' "right" to use the drug of their choice. Nobody is an island and the wealth of each person is for them primarily and for others secondarily. The latter part is what I'm emphasizing

There will never be paradise in this universe. — Gregory

Buddhism is not about paradise. It is about understanding your true nature and where you stand in relation to The Universe. The idea is not to "eliminate suffering," it is to accept it as a normal part of life, as it is not what happens to us that is the problem, instead, it is the reaction to what happens.

Fully enlightened people have lived brutal lives with all kinds of suffering. They just don't see it that way. For them, it's just the way it is. Not good, not bad. Just is.

Maybe there should simply be laws for how right people should use their wealth for others. So cooperation. Sean Hannity said wealth causes more problems for the wealthy, so why not help everyone out with proper governmental programs.

There have been libraries of books written about all of this, but try to keep in mind that there is good and bad in everything. Looking back over the last couple of hundred years, it appears as if erring on the side of too much freedom is the way to go.

I take my suffering as a way to grow into moments of happiness

There are no simple clean answers, but maybe that proper and how it should be

It's because the government is eventually corrupted by people who lie, cheat, and steal. It's the way it has always been.

The key is for you to find your own way. There are as many ways to the mountain-top as there are people.

Believe in yourself 100%!

Although cliche, it's all about the journey.

There are no simple clean answers, but maybe that proper and how it should be — Gregory

No need to worry about how it should be. Spend all of your energy doing what you believe is right and your life will unfold nicely.

Thanks

Enjoyed the conversation.

Have a good one!

Fully enlightened people have lived brutal lives with all kinds of suffering. They just don't see it that way. For them, it's just the way it is. Not good, not bad. Just is. — synthesis

Either you're fully enlightened or this is one of those theoretical or faith things, which you seem to frequently pooh-pooh.

Either you're fully enlightened or this is one of those theoretical or faith things, which you seem to frequently pooh-pooh. — praxis

It doesn't matter what I am. Think about it this way...

If you have a body, most likely you are going to suffer...illness, accident, death (of yourself or a loved one/friend). Different people experience different degrees of suffering depending on a number of factors.

Again, to suffer is to be human, how you deal with the suffering is what we are chatting about. You can make an analogy with pain. As you are most likely aware, a great deal of pain is mental/psychological. Once you understand the nature of pain (the primary reason the historical Buddha chose sitting meditation as the preferred method, that is, pain is your best teacher), everything changes. And as I have said previously, once you understand one thing, you understand ever thing.

It matters because there's a difference between what we actually experience and what we take on faith or intellectualize.

I think thinking about things and theorising can be thoughtful and thorough. Faith ain't noth'n to tilt your nose up at either. However, if we have an aversion to such things, for whatever odd reason, then what is left to have faith in but our own experiece.

"Philosophy is conceptually comprehensive cognition..., what is absolutely concrete"- Hegel

For me to find states where thinking ceases is reaching those conditions without thought and therefore too quickly

Capitalism creates the greatest opportunity for the same group. While communism existed, the capitalists presumed to give up part of the surplus value in social rights, but the USSR went bankrupt. In my opinion, all the standard bearers of American capitalism who are patriots could demonstrate their patriotism by giving half of the wealth they have accumulated to the rest of their compatriots whom they have not stopped plundering. They would continue to live like gods and others would have coverage for pregnancy, illness and retirement. I am ashamed to see that a 90-year-old man has to continue working for the Amazon boss if he wants to live.

The poor are poor in any country in the world. Highly capitalist countries steal energy and mineral resources from other countries, increasing violence in them. In the country itself, the highly capitalist government prints more bills, increasing inflation and robbing everyone except the big capitalists, friends of the rulers, who keep their tax breaks. Have you heard of Marine General Smedley Butler?
A slave is a slave when he is not even able to imagine that another world is possible.

Printing money with no standard helps the rich? That's interesting