I don't disagree.

I don't disagree — 180 Proof

Then that means the direction VR is taking - improvement in graphics and sound - is wrong . The idea isn't to make the world, the objects, the characters as real, sensorily, as possible. Rather we need to offer people good, meaningful, alternative storylines to their real, mundane existence. Once the narrative makes an impression, the high-end simulated world will be what it should be - the cherry on top.

del

@180 Proof Sorry, I'm a bit confused here so please do forgive the double post but allow me to clarify.

What I mean is people don't mind living the life of a fictional character so long as the fictional world and the real world can't be differentiated. This means, in terms of VR, people desire realistic VR but there's some flexibility when it comes to the realness of the life they have in VR.

Del

I think it's deeper than that: ... isn't it reasonable for one to prefer the – in principle – "programmable & replayable" experience (VR)? And wouldn't this preference also belong to "the truth of" one's life story? — 180 Proof

In other words, fantasy "life" is about control – having far greater control over one's experiences than non-fantasy living. In so far as the human brain-CNS can't discern VR from R, the experiences are persistently the same. It's not merely about "better graphics & sound".

In other words, fantasy "life" is about control – having far greater control over one's experiences than non-fantasy living. In so far as the human brain-CNS can't discern VR from R, the experiences are persistently indistinguishable. — 180 Proof

You're right on that score but my concern is about, I realize now, a paradox in fantasy-VR. Allow me to explain. The holy grail of VR is to make it identical to R (reality). Otherwise, we won't accept it - there'll always be something unrealistic in the simulation to spoil it for us.

Contrast the above demand for realism in VR with the fact that we don't mind a virtual life that's different from our real life. This is, if you really look at it, a desire/wish for what is, essentially, an unreal life.

Thus, we have us unwilling to accept VR that's unrealistic but, simultaneously, willing to accept a virtual life that's unreal. Paradoxical, no? :chin:

Apparently. 'Unrealistic experientially' we reject. 'Unreal narratively' we crave. Ideally we don't want to be aware that our fantasies are fantasies while we are immersed in (lucidly dreaming?) them.

Apparently. 'Unrealistic experientially' we reject. 'Unreal narratively' we crave. — 180 Proof

Yes. What's up with that?

Our CNS-brains are (heuristic) confabulation-survival engines and not (causal) 'truth machines'; the latter is merely a cultural exaptation. Thus, the prevalence of (emotional investment in) wishful-magical-group/conspiracy thinking (i.e. religiosity, ideology ... ego-fantasy) and the persistence of cognitive dissonance when the facts push back.

Our CNS-brains are (heuristic) confabulation-survival engines and not (causal) 'truth machines'. The latter is merely a cultural exaptation. Thus, the prevalence of wishful-magical-group/conspiracy thinking and cognitive dissonance when the facts push back. — 180 Proof

:up: :ok:

Suppose John fantasizes about being the great fictional detective Sherlock Holmes. He is then offered a VR in which he can be Sherlock Holmes. If John is anything like the rest of us he will insist that the VR be realistic but the catch is Sherlock Holmes ain't real.

It doesn't add up.

Why does it have to "add up"? The prospect isn't an argument, it's an endeavor.

Why does it have to "add up"? The prospect isn't an argument, it's an endeavor. — 180 Proof

Inconsistency? You want the world to be real but, at the same time, don't mind living a life that's unreal.

Big whup. Human is as Human does.

Big whup. Human is as Human does. — 180 Proof

Our CNS-brains are (heuristic) confabulation-survival engines and not (causal) 'truth machines'; the latter is merely a cultural exaptation. Thus, the prevalence of (emotional investment in) wishful-magical-group/conspiracy thinking (i.e. religiosity, ideology ... ego-fantasy) and the persistence of cognitive dissonance when the facts push back. — 180 Proof

:up: Thanks

So, I am just interested to know how important people think that fantasy in the whole process of thinking and as mental states? — Jack Cummins

I agree with all you've said.

In my personal experience, I often fantasize that I matter, and I fantasize that my opinions matter, and I fantasize that someone will ask me the same question they asked some knob in an interview, and I fantasize how I would have answered the same question. I fantasize the multitudes are present to revel in my witty response. In this process, I argue and debate with myself on the answer I would best provide, working on it, refining it, winnowing it down to the nut.

While this rarely does any good in the real world (because nobody gives a shit what I think, least of all the teaming masses who are most in need of my genius), it still helps me formulate my thoughts in a way that I better understand them. And that, to me, is important.

On rare occasion, I find that if I can keep my mouth shut long enough, opportunity will present itself and I can insert something recognizable as somewhat, if barely, contributory and worthwhile. I take those little wins, and the fantasy process starts anew; usually with how I could have better done it.

Yes, I think that I fantasise that I matter too, especially that I matter to the people who are significant to me. It makes life so more pleasant. I even sometimes have fantasy conversations, and these often are like rehearsals for the conversations which I have at some stage in real life.

The worst thing seems to me when the bubble is burst on pleasant fantasy, by harsh truths. In many ways I find that the inner world of imagination is as important as the facts of everyday existence, and the two seem interconnected. Also, even when life around oneself is collapsing it is possible to enjoy fantasy, within daydreams or through the transformational nature of entertainment and the arts. And, yes, I find that if I can keep my mouth shut, rather than blurring out all my inner mess, I can usually find some way of expressing myself in some worthwhile context.

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