everyone deserves a fair trial - and that prejudging what happened, doesn't allow for a fair trial — counterpunch

Look up what a Medical Examiner's job is. For fuck's sake. Do at least the bare minimum.

Do you realize that you make equally, if not more sweeping assumptions about the people you interact with on this forum - their worldview, their honesty, their intelligence? You don't pause to think whether you have enough evidence to prove any of that in court.

Is Kenosha Kid the Medical Examiner in the Floyd case? I had no idea! I should have done my research. I've only been able to determine that there are two contradictory autopsies, and a pending toxicology result. But as the Medical Examiner in the case is here - well, I'll have to defer to his professional expertise!

I've only been able to determine that there are two contradictory autopsies, — counterpunch

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posting/two-autopsies-found-george-floyds-death-was-homici/

Phew, now I'm absolutely exhausted. All that research... Now I see why people are so reluctant to do it. I'm going to have to have a lie down.

Yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the sweeping assumptions I make about people here - but those people are quite free to refute those accusations, and explain what they really believe, which is my purpose in doing so. I'm being deliberately provocative with people being insufficiently honest.

Did you read your own reference? The two autopsies are contradictory. And there's a toxicology report at issue. Which is exactly what I said. So don't tell me to "do the bare minimum" like I don't know what I'm talking about.

You think you know, but you don't. — counterpunch

Oh, but I do.

You are not intelligent enough to understand that everyone deserves a fair trial - and that prejudging what happened, doesn't allow for a fair trial - particularly if you're a mainstream broadcaster like the BBC. — counterpunch

Everyone deserves a fair trial but that unfortunately for you includes video footage, eye witness testimony and coroner reports. These things you like to dismiss are called "facts" and those are used in court to assess culpability.

But the BBC is utterly in thrall to the same politically correct, lefty cultural paradigm that so demonstrably biases your thinking, and then broadcasts undue assumptions based on that politically correct bias. The BBC should know better! — counterpunch

The battle cry of the racist! If someone says it's not okay for the police to murder people in their custody, well duh! Oh, the person's black? Political correctness gone mad, right?

If George Floyd had been a white criminal, who resisted arrest by four police officers, while handcuffed, making it impossible to put him in the car - so they restrained him, and he died, possibly as a consequence of that restraint - I'd be saying the same thing. — counterpunch

Yah bullshit. A police officer shoots a white woman part of a violent mob calling for the murder of elected officials storming a government building and attacking police officers and your response is:

It's shameful that a police officer shot someone dead for trying to enter a building that they own. — counterpunch

A black man lies handcuffed, face down, gasping that he can't breathe for 8 minutes and your response is basically: probly deserved it.

Standard racist crap.

You think you know, but you don't.
— counterpunch

Oh, but I do. — Kenosha Kid

Oh, but you don't.

Oh, but you don't. — counterpunch

What is it with fascists always telling people that they didn't see what they saw? Same deal with the lynch mob at the Capitol.

You should have viewed the police bodycam footage. It shows Floyd, handcuffed, fighting four police officers - making it impossible to put him in the car. And he's yelling "I can't breathe" - that BLM slogan, while fighting four police officers. You say he was face down, handcuffed - but that's only because he needed to be restrained. Floyd created that need. And BLM bullshit undermined the credibility of any subsequent complaint that he couldn't breathe. Did the woman need to be shot dead to prevent her entering a building? I don't think so. Do you care about her death? No. She was white!

Floyd was murdered lying face down with the cop's knee on his neck for 8 minutes. Cherry-picking the facts doesn't make you less racist: it makes you more.

The two autopsies are contradictory. — counterpunch

Irrelevant. Both conclude he was killed, which is the statement you took issue with. Nowhere did the BBC state that the autopsies contained no contrary information.

I didn't edit the video plastered all over social media, or tailor my description of events to make the suspect seem guiltless and helpless. I'm not cherry picking anything. I know why the police needed to restrain him. I didn't omit that - you did.

They were waiting for a van because Floyd fought like a mad dog, making it impossible to put him into the car. If he had got into the car, he wouldn't be dead. Floyd put himself face down in the road with a policeman pinning him down. He created that situation. It was a dangerous situation. Restraining people is inherently dangerous, and potentially fatal.

If the police fear they may end up charged with murder for restraining people, it's going to make it impossible for them to do their job.

The defence say he wasn't killed. The defence say he overdosed. The autopsies are evidence - the value of which is yet to be determined by the jury. Saying he was killed is therefore, to assume guilt, and to broadcast an assumption of guilt may prejudice the trial.

I didn't edit the video plastered all over social media, or tailor my description of events to make the suspect seem guiltless and helpless. — counterpunch

Accusing black people of faking evidence of race crimes against them with nothing but moronic conspiracy theories: racist.

The defence say he wasn't killed. The defence say he overdosed. — counterpunch

That doesn't make much sense.

Accusing black people of faking evidence of race crimes against them with nothing but moronic conspiracy theories: racist. — Kenosha Kid

Look at the statistics on the Bureau of Justice Statistics website. I did when the BLM rioting, burning and looting started because I wanted to know the facts.

There are around 10 million arrests per year, and around 1000 Arrest Related Deaths. That's based on an average of data from 2003-2012, before Obama shut down collection of data on the race of arrest related deaths, the year before Black Lies Matter was formed in 2013.

The data shows that of the 1000 deaths, that's 0.1% of all arrests, 32% were black and 42% were white.

Given that a lot more crimes are committed by black people than by white people, that's not disproportionate. More crimes of violence are committed by black people in general - suggesting perhaps, a greater propensity to resist arrest. For example, more murders are committed by the black, 13% of the US population, than the 76% white population.

If there's a conspiracy here, it's the false narrative created by BLM with carefully edited cell phone footage, to suggest police are engaged in a racist genocide and incite black people to riots. Perhaps that was to spike the US Presidential election. Perhaps that was post modernist neo-marxists seeking to undermine law and order, like they are trying to undermine all western values.

"Common targets of postmodern criticism include universalist ideas of objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, science, language, and social progress."

You really are the enemy within.

If there's a conspiracy here, it's the false narrative created by BLM with carefully edited cell phone footage, to incite black people to riots. P — counterpunch

Wow. You really are locked into your own little psycho-bubble, aren't you?

No. If I'm mistaken, please show me in what way. I'd be happy to learn because frankly, I'm worried.

What are you worried about?

I'm worried about the left wing, post modernist, politically correct, anti-capitalist assault on western civilisation.

Oh. Nothing lasts forever, man. We're just zooming through the middle of nowhere, headed toward nothing, for no reason.

My advice: see the beauty around you, weep for all the world's pain, and drink some really good tea.

Let me ask you a question. Who invented the Covid vaccine, and who's going to pay for the rest of the world to get it if the WHO have their way?

You attack the very foundations of our civilisation, free speech, a fair trial, law and order, capitalism, gender, sexuality, race - a constant multi-pronged assault, and it's true - nothing does last forever. A dripping tap will cut through a mountain given enough time. So keep chipping away, and when it all comes tumbling down around your ears, do you honestly think things will be better?

You attack the very foundations of our civilisation, free speech, a fair trial, law and order, capitalism, gender, sexuality, race - a constant multi-pronged assault, and it's true - nothing does last forever. A dripping tap will cut through a mountain given enough time. So keep chipping away, and when it all comes tumbling down around your ears, do you honestly think things will be better? — counterpunch

You've got the Ghost of Doom lurking on your horizon. You think the solution is to put down women and minorities. It's old school white supremacism, man.

Do you see yourself as an evangelist for this cause?

How depressing that you immediately see things in terms of skin colour. Do you consider yourself racist?

Yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the sweeping assumptions I make about people here - but those people are quite free to refute those accusations, and explain what they really believe, which is my purpose in doing so. I'm being deliberately provocative with people being insufficiently honest. — counterpunch

IOW, you approach communication in bad faith.

What could you possibly expect in return??

How depressing that you immediately see things in terms of skin colour. Do you consider yourself racist? — counterpunch

So you're not trying to convert people. You're just spitting out the same blerbs over and over, unable to wake up from it.

Still, it's more fun to talk to you than your counterparts, I will say that.

No I encounter bad faith arguments, and...

What could you possibly expect in return?? — baker

Am I right to assume, it's a 'progressive' endeavour, to seek knowledge that explains the world we live in. — Edy

It just looks like that.

One reason of course is that leftist ideology is atheist. However when you take a large group of scientists and add engineers there, it just looks to be leftist as the discourse in the university, at least the loudest people, are leftist, but likely it is a normal varied group. I simply don't buy the idea that universities are bastions of marxism, as some say. It's usually bullshit: you likely find just one or two loud mouthed activist that paint some faculty to be "red" and of course young students that before landing in their cushy careers, blow off steam in a rally or two. Besides, scientists don't openly show their political ideologies and why should they? To be a great volcanologist your political views don't matter so much.

Here's the difference between us. If George Floyd had been a white criminal, who resisted arrest by four police officers, while handcuffed, making it impossible to put him in the car - so they restrained him, and he died, possibly as a consequence of that restraint - I'd be saying the same thing. I'd be saying Floyd created the situation that led to his death, and the benefit of the doubt is with the police. You wouldn't. In fact, if George Floyd were a white criminal we'd never have heard of him. Floyd's skin colour changes things for you. That's what makes you a racist. — counterpunch

I did an experiment with the George Floyd situation:
I didn't pay attention to it when it was on the news, and only saw the video of his arrest for the first time last week.

What I saw there was the police acting in bad faith (as the police often does) and a person who was helpless against that.


Unlike probably most posters here, I am not for the US, not from the UK, I am from a country that is some 99% white and the closest I've ever seen a black person is in a tv or newspaper commercial.

I, in effect am, "color blind", but not because of political orientation, but simply because growing up in a monoracial culture where race is never or only rarely an issue can make a person not focus on skin color/race at all. Our official identification documents issued by the state do not contain a race description. Unlike US ones.