A pillar of American prosecutorial strategy is to overcharge people and use the threat of hefty penalties to secure guilty or nolo contendere charges. For example, only 2% of cases in the Federal system go to trial. Prosecutors readily admit to this strategy. You bring cases you likely can't win as common practice, because the risk to the accused if they are convicted will by high enough to compel a plea. You use the plea to give them the lesser punishment you think they deserve. — Count Timothy von Icarus

In 2012, the federal conviction rate was 92%. That was admittedly a very high year, but the suggestion that crimes are being prosecuted that would only lose if taken to trial probably isn't true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

The fact that the Feds don't go after marijuana producers in states where it is legal is an example where prosecutorial discretion based on political decision has functionally rewritten the law as exercised. Those are winnable cases they don't pursue. Charging all the protestors who went to the Kentucky AG's house to protest the Breonna Taylor case with felonies was making unwinnable charges to punish and threaten people. An unwinnable case they did pursue, before reversing thanks to politics. — Count Timothy von Icarus

I don't see any ethical problem with not prosecuting winnable cases, but to the extent any unwinnable case is prosecuted, that is an ethical violation. If you have examples where the prosecutor knew there was reasonable doubt and prosecuted anyway, that was unethical. Whether the system is riddled with unethical behavior doesn't change what is and isn't ethical.

The 92% conviction rate is because only 2% of cases go to trial. Additionally, if a person faces multiple charges, but are found innocent of all but one, it counts as a conviction.

Check page 12 of Wikipedia's source. 26% of jury trials and 36% of all trials (judge + jury) result in no conviction.

High conviction rates are secured by forcing pleas in the overwhelming majority of cases. This makes the system work much more efficiently and cheaply, but it also has created a system where heavy potential punishment is used to force pleas from innocent people.

This isn't "some prosecutors do it," the plea system is an integral part of how the US justice system works at a basic level.

I think the third season of the podcast Serial, even just the first episode is a pretty good close up of how the system works in benign cases.

Racism doesn't exist so of course not.

These are criminals you are talking about with court cases, they should go to jail and get a heavy sentence.

Racism doesn't exist so of course not — Ergosum

i.e. Holocaust (... round earth, safe effacious vaccines, moon landings, Jim Crow segregation & lynchings, etc) denial redux. I guess self-described "racists" like David Duke et al are 'bogeyman' figments of their own fevered imaginations? And all survivors of so-called "racist" discrimination & violence are just opportune liars? :shade:

Racism doesn't exist — Ergosum

That's a bold claim. You don't believe that people face discrimination because of their race? You don't believe that there is racially motivated violence?

Systemic discrimination (race, gender, etc) exists in the US (and Canada) in the form of affirmative action initiatives set forth by the government in the form of polices and mandatory hiring requirements.

I have been turned away from local education options as a result of my colour, I was refused to even be allowed to apply to the program: "No. Only ------ people can apply. you can go to school 3000km away instead." I have not been allowed to apply to jobs; wrong gender.

I am not frustrated with the people who were allowed to apply for these programs or jobs, not at all. Good for them for getting in, or landing the job. But how exactly does denying me, or anyone else, the option to apply somehow diminish someone else? I would suspect that the reverse would be more accurate. I do not want an education program to accept me simply because of my gender or ancestry. Nor would I want a job awarded to me based on my gender. I have had classmates who were awarded the same certificates I have achieved, classmates that did not achieve the required grades to obtain said certificates, and yet were awarded them anyway, to enhance the diversity of the graduating class. This demeans all of the achievements of everyone that earned their certifications. This is the systemic racism and sexism that is pervasive in government and institutions.
Yes, individuals can, and frequently, make discriminatory comments, or actions that effect others, however to have a truly divisive effect on society we can look to the government as the source of deep seeded frustration based on perceived inequalities of treatment and opportunities. That is the fundamental source of discrimination.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/myth-of-reverse-racism/535689/

Your point is?

This article supports my thesis nicely. It attempts to explain why we need these programs, and why/how the resentment is somehow wrong, and at no point interviews anyone who has actually been turned away as a result of these programs, thereby allowing the writer to use expressions like "allegedly" or the title "Myth of reverse racism", rather than acknowledging it is even a reality. Denial is not a helpful starting point for any valuable conversation.

If I deny what others say, and they refuse to accept my experiences as valid, there is a minimal chance that we make any progress forward.

Your anecdotal evidence, unverifiable as it is, doesn't replace the fact that overall:

White students still make up almost three-quarters of all private external scholarship recipients in four-year bachelor’s programs, almost two-thirds of all institutional grants and scholarship recipients, and over three-quarters of all merit-based grants and scholarships, although white people only make up about 62 percent of the college student population and about half of all people under 19. White students are more likely than black, Latino, and Asian students to receive scholarships.

So despite affirmative action the US is still racist enough to not let that deter itself from promoting white people more easily than people of colour, meaning systemic racism, you know, the REAL kind, not the perceived slights you claim to have experienced - is very much alive and well.

So it's ok, as per you, to let the white kid (assumption on your part that I am white eh) have to travel 3000km from home to take the same program that is offered locally, because he is white, and, what? he deserves the extra costs because he has so much extra money from apparently stealing it from all the minorities around him? Horseshit. I am saying everyone should get treated equally, no preference for anyone, any race, any gender.

Also, next time someone feels they have been discriminated against, should I use your language and dismiss their experiences as unverifiable, anecdotal, and then ask them if they have any REAL discrimination to speak of? Betcha that starts a fist fight.

High conviction rates are secured by forcing pleas in the overwhelming majority of cases. This makes the system work much more efficiently and cheaply, but it also has created a system where heavy potential punishment is used to force pleas from innocent people. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Or take a bit pessimistic view, it's the only way the whole system could handle the vast number of cases. Otherwise it simply wouldn't work. You can argue that it is hence "more efficient and cheaper".

Old old story: In the US, the majority of beneficiaries of Affirmative Action[1] are white women; as well as majority of recipients of Welfare (i.e. public housing, food stamps, Medicaid, etc)[2] are white families.

[1] https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action

[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/welfare-policy-created-white-wealth-largely-leaving-black-americans-behind-2020-8

I think it's dangerous to fall into the trap of "differences between group outcomes = discrimination."

For example:



This comes from a good place, but it is quite literally instructions to take correlation as causation. Group outcomes will vary when groups are different. "Diversity is our strength," would be meaningless if all people were the same.

Although people generally won't say it, when they are presented with evidence of an unfair society in terms of ratios, they will internally fall back on the conventionally unspeakable explanations of "superior" culture and genetics. Causal mechanisms take more time to explain, but will work better at changing minds. African Americans performing worse economically being the result of "cultural deficits," is an essential Republican talking point now, and "biological explanations," have been allowed to make a comeback, I'd argue, because discussing what we actually know about them has become fraught even in the academy.

The frustrating thing for me is that:
A. The new brand of "race realists" don't know what they're talking about but aren't properly rebutted.
B. Classical liberalism already had fine arguments for not treating people based on what you think you know about the mean attributes of whatever groups they fall into.

I suppose the other problem is that "Wokeness" as an ideology has a bad habit of taking what it wants from positivist social sciences, and then flipping to critical theory whenever it suits an argument. The issue being is that people are going to get turned off from the arguments because it's essentially psuedoscience. As with psychoanalysis, any objections to its claims can be explained within the theory (e.g. White Fragility, Internalized Oppression). Failure to accept dogma is a sign of a problem internal to the individual. Claims are essentially unfalsifiable. This isn't a blanket condemnation, just a popular thread in a broader social movement for reforms that I think hamstring the larger movement.

For example, police use of deadly force in the infamous Harvard study isn't actually unbiased, as the study suggests, because the control variables vary systematically with demographics. You have to remove controls. But then the death penalty is racist, despite being massively disproportionate in killing White people over the past 50 years, because if controls are introduced it shows bias. Either way is fine to look at an issue, but the goal of regression analysis is to hone in on causal methods, and hopefully test them experimentally, not to pile up a scientific gloss on a theory that also rejects positivism whenever necessary. Not to mention, rather than tie yourself into knots rebutting a single study, you could just remind people of the replication crisis...

At least that's where I think people get turned around. Stories and causal explanations are harder to deflect.

Cheaper to prosecute at least. The American prison system is horrendously expensive and also ineffective on terms of recidivism, undercutting more global arguments for "efficiency."

Hitler killed the jews because they were socialists and he believed they began socialism. Because of this, to him he was stopping the rise of communism and the killing of all smart Germans like what happened in Russia. You can see it to this day with how the IQ in those countries is several points lower than in places that never suffered communism.
They were lynched because they did a crime and the mob was angry about it, not unlike BLM today. With them though they stopped once the wrong-doing was dealt with but with BLM 3 months after the police officers were charged they continue rioting.
It says on your profile that you describe yourself as a "non-player gamer". You seem to be an NPC as well.

I think people can but I wouldn't consider it "racism" just being an asshole or playing favorites. That or they are hiring the best person for the job unlike how it may appear. Companies hire close to evenly anyway on average for whites and blacks. If you have no criminal-record then there are slightly better odds if you are white but with a criminal record it's slightly better to be black. For violence, they probably do have hatred in their heart and it's unfortunate that they were influenced and/or born that way. Could be also motivated by different things or even be one of those "hate crime hoaxes".

I too recall the part in the Holocaust where the reasonable Nazis said "enough is enough." If only BLM was as reasonable. Alas, the battle is lost for us friend. Best to flee to your bunker now before Biden invokes socialist Sharia law.

Hitler killed the jews because they were socialists and he believed they began socialism. — Ergosum

Ah, I see, so Hitler painted the walls of his bunker with his brains because he was a National SOCIALIST too ... Gotcha. :ok: :roll:

Antisemitism in Christianity (Wikipedia)
Adam Weishaupt (Wikipedia)
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Wikipedia)
The New World Order (Robertson book) (Wikipedia)
Conspiracy theory (Wikipedia)

Mental pollution, fear, hatred, zeal ... turned Us-versus-Them is a favorite pass-time of some people.

Neurotic apes doing our thing?

I think it's dangerous to fall into the trap of "differences between group outcomes = discrimination." - I suppose the other problem is that "Wokeness" as an ideology has a bad habit of taking what it wants from positivist social sciences, and then flipping to critical theory whenever it suits an argument. The issue being is that people are going to get turned off from the arguments because it's essentially pseudoscience. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Well, John McWhorter describes this as a religion. It's not open for debate, but a belief system where everybody criticizing it obviously is a racist.

Based on your pro-Nazi screed earlier, I assume you'd do better at /pol/ or 8kun, lovely places I got to observe at my old job, no beta cuck simps at all!

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/30/europe/france-security-law-change-intl/index.html

The French set half of Paris and more on fire and tore down fucking everything, and lo and behold, the ruling party are promising a change to their shitty law restricting people from filming the police.

Lesson to be learned: set shit on fire and break everything and fuck those who whine about 'riots'. The ruling class needs to learn how to fear.

:fire:

Black folks in America have always been anti-fascists (Antifa!), such as during WWII and, especially black women, in 2018-2020 mobilized against The tRump Putsch.

"I don't care what color you are as long as you go up there and kill those Kraut sons of bitches."
~General George S. Patton, upon calling up the all-Black 761st Tank Battalion for duty in the fall of 1944

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/30/opinions/blinken-stepfather-761st-black-soldiers-holmes/index.html

Black Lives Also Matter.

:death: :flower:

R.A.L. murders 8 people and was taken in alive even though he was armed.

P.C. was unarmed and killed within 62 seconds of a police encounter during a traffic stop.

I bet even y'all "muricans" can guess which man wasn't
white. :brow:

Yes. It is exists in the US and all of the developed/first world countries.
I guess there is a country which is even more racist than U.S. and it’s Japan.
Probably we all already heard of Japan as a good educational country and “developed” due to their “culture”. They are lying. They are more racist than US and Europe. If you are not Japanese or don’t have a white skin you have to give up because you are not welcome there.
Also it is a country full of bad prejudices. They are always showing to your face they are better and a powerful rich nation while “you” are just backwards citizen.
They way they are acting some people say it is cute and they have education but at the end of the day is racist. You can check it in some symbolism in anime or manga too. All theforeigners are black or criminals. I remember some Latino friends of mine were very interesting in Japan and when they were there Japanese people told them real Spanish comes only from Spain. Ignorance and systemic racism.

Sometimes we idealised countries which end up acting bad towards us. It isn’t only in the US.
I was in Arkansas, Texas, Missouri, Illinois and Wisconsin and never heard a problem due to my Hispanic skin.

Germany? Hmm no. US? Hmm no. France? Hmm no... yes this nazi convention is in Tokyo.

[img]http://

One more back at the OP and all of you haters-in-denial:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/25/minneapolis-police-race-violence-justice-department-investigation

If US police departments are systemically racist, then the US police-state is systemically racist as even a glance at US history shows.

(4.20.21) Guilty. Guilty. Guilty....

However, one instance of accountability does not A Just Society make. :fire:

People don't like being compared to horses, but I can find some use in it. If you have a remuda stocked with rough-broke ponies and the gentle trained, some of the more experienced riders will wrangle the trained up horses. To the extent your brand tries to break the spirit of, and bring a horse to the rope in a rough fashion, you have a systemic issue in that outfit. That doesn't take anything away from the rider, who gets stuck trying to do a job with such horses. And it surely doesn't take anything away from the horse, except his spirit and his voluntary willingness, even eagerness to work with you. Gentle training takes more time and money but it can make for a better horse.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/25/politics/lindsey-graham-systemic-racism-america/index.html

Aren't black neighborhoods also the ones with the most crime, though? If so, then it sort of makes sense for cops to be there. It's not like cops are Nazi Stormtroopers or whatever in Jewish ghettos for no reason other than to harm Jews.

Honestly, I don't think that Communism was that much of an IQ shredder--at least not in regards to average IQ:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Intelligence_and_Human_Progress/lqvT06pDU1MC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22How+much+did+Pol+Pot+do+to+lower+the+mean+IQ+of+the+Cambodian+people%3F%22&pg=PA40&printsec=frontcover