• Abdul
    46
    What is rightness? What is correctness? If we’re all shaped by our own experiences, assumptions, and biases, what meaning, then, does the word “absolute truth” hold?

    So when we have religious books and religious authorities telling us whether we’re straying far from or moving close to “the truth,” what is it? Where is it? Who knows, maybe God (whoever or whatever that maybe to you) is right after all. But who is to be the judge of that?


    What is God, anyway? If it’s Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Trinity then what do you call Allah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for that sake? If you consider them false gods, they still are “gods” by definition. So then what can be considered a god? Let’s say it’s something that you worship. Who then possesses the power of determining what absolute truth is? Is it the god or is it the one who determined what his god should be? In that sense, the power lies behind the worshipper because he had the power to choose who to worship, and ultimately, define his moral laws, ethical behavior, destiny, and truth.

    If we follow that definition, God’s power is limited. And the characteristic of a omnipotent being loses it’s sense. It’s fallible. Illogical.

    It is not we that are important because God chose us. It is he that is important because of us. We assign his value and his importance in our lives. Thus, assigning him his power over us. We subject ourselves willingly.
  • ff0
    120
    It is not we that are important because God chose us. It is he that is important because of us. We assign his value and his importance in our lives. Thus, assigning him his power over us. We subject ourselves willingly.Abdul

    I agree. And yet our will to worship and subject ourselves is something we do not choose. We are thrown in to this itch for the holy. So we might speak of the God behind all gods. But why not just call it life, then? We are thrown into loving and fearing, work and suffering, ecstasy and terror. To some degree (perhaps) religion is a reaction to this situation into which we are thrown. We impose an order. We insist that this order is not just our individual fantasy. But that too is part of the imposition of order --an escape from us all working out our salvation in different and other-opposing ways.
  • Larissa
    4


    What is rightness? What is correctness? If we’re all shaped by our own experiences, assumptions, and biases, what meaning, then, does the word “absolute truth” hold?Abdul

    The idea of right or wrong really depends on whether you are theistic or atheistic. If you are theistic or an adherent to some sort of spiritual system (e.g. Buddhism which does not have a god), you would say that there is some kind of moral law that stays the same regardless of spatial-temporal location. If you are atheistic, some people, like Rosenberg, argue that our idea of morality is simply made up-there is no right or wrong, those ideas were simply conceived through evolution/natural selection over time because they increased our chances of survival and producing offspring. In this case, nihilism is the only real option.

    I think that some of your argument is based on a hasty definition of god that does not quite account for some of the other factors that are needed in a fully-fleshed argument. First of all, the definition of a god that you give needs amending. A god is not just something that is worshiped, the idea of worship of gods comes from the idea that the god is worthy of worship due to its power, knowledge, goodness, etc. Once this is clarified, some of the other questions or objections you raise fall into place. If you believe that God deserves worship, it is implied that it is because you believe they are greater than you in some way, which includes the idea that they would know something that you do not-that is, the absolute truth. In addition, the idea of God is also a catch-all of sorts in explaining many of the seemingly unexplainable things in life; as such, the way that this idea of a greater being will naturally manifest itself in different ways. But in a way, people do not necessarily choose which God or gods they believe in, as you claim. People believe based on whichever one makes the most sense to them, or they simply don't believe at all. And by virtue of being able to not believe at all, IF God is real in the sense of the amended definition I stated above, someone not believing would not then render him powerless as you claim.
  • freewhirl
    7
    Why does a benevolent god need to be worshipped? Deep down, isn’t that a trait of selfishness which isn’t really associated with rightness? When looking at finding rightness through worshipping a god, doesn’t it seem a little contradictory if the entire belief system to becoming a better person all lies on trying to please a divine figure. If a god(s) is truly good and benevolent, there shouldn’t be any need for individuals to try and please the good they choose to follow. Instead, it makes more sense for all people to be able to be given the benefits of worshipping a god without proving their faith to said God. I agree that if we follow the idea that power lies behind the worshipper, then it would be though the individual’s devotion to their god that allows their god to exhibit their power.

    A god is not just something that is worshiped, the idea of worship of gods comes from the idea that the god is worthy of worship due to its power, knowledge, goodness, etc. Once this is clarified, some of the other questions or objections you raise fall into place. If you believe that God deserves worship, it is implied that it is because you believe they are greater than you in some way, which includes the idea that they would know something that you do not-that is, the absolute truthLarissa

    What is exactly worthy enough for an individual to worship a god though? For an example, if the Christian God demands that his followers devote their lives and worship hi/she/it in order to achieve holiness or some state of goodness, isn’t that God limiting themselves from being omnipotent? If God is truly omnipotent, then God would have no need for anyone to physically worship them, or even further to recognize the existence of God. The difficult thing about this thought is that even if God needs worshippers and followers to progress their work on earth, what is the end goal of they years of devotion. Pursuing God doesn’t guarantee a full knowledge of truth for those people, even if it provides them comfort when life throws unexpected curves.
    Any any of you explain to me how the power of God is affected by human worship? Thanks:)
  • Naomi
    9
    What is God, anyway? If it’s Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Trinity then what do you call Allah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for that sake? If you consider them false gods, they still are “gods” by definition. So then what can be considered a god?Abdul

    If the Trinity is real, then the other “false gods” are called that because they are being worshipped in place of the real 3-in-1 God. It’s not because they are actual gods. It’s kind of like a term used to say who/what are mistaken as gods but are really not. They might be seen as god-like but are not God. Furthermore, they might be referred to as gods by some people, but if they are not the Trinity, in this scenario where we are supposing the Trinity is real, then they are not God or gods. For example, if you stole my identity and were able to convince any amount of people that you were me, no amount of people believing you were me would make you me. Also, if I convinced any amount of people that I was a doctor, which I am not, no amount of people believing that I am a doctor would make me a doctor.

    The answer to “what is God” is hard to determine. I want to propose that for a being to be God it would have to at least have eternal and necessary existence and probably some divine agency. There are other criteria commonly stated like omnipotence, and God could very well be omnipotent or have other supernatural qualities, but I don’t think He would necessarily need those to be God. It would be possible for there to be no being that meets my criteria, or it is also possible for multiple beings to meet these criteria.

    You seemed to make the following argument towards the end of your post:

    1. If the requirement to be a god is to be something that is worshipped, then the power lies behind the worshipper.
    2. If the power lies behind the worshipper, then God is not omnipotent.
    3. Therefore, if the requirement to be a god is to be something that is worshipped, then God is not omnipotent.

    I think premise 1 may be objectionable because almost anything is worshipped by someone from celebrities and animals to probably some objects. I guess the power that the worshipper would have is declaring the being as a god. However, it seems possible that there could be an omnipotent being that is not worshipped. That being would still have omnipotence. It just would not be called a god by mankind, and not being acknowledged by humans just doesn’t seem to take away from its power in any way. I guess in this case being a god seems more like a label, not a state of being or an identity, which is why that doesn’t seem to be the right definition for a god.
  • KerimF
    162

    Yes, there is a set of absolute rules (truths) that defines the existence of our universe, Naturally, it includes what is good and bad for you (for the nature you are made of) as it includes too what is good and bad for me (also for the nature I am made of). So whoever talks of a truth suitable to ALL human beings is one of two:
    {1} He didn't have the chance yet to discover the real world.
    [2] He is a smart deceiver.
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