When I see people tearing down a statue of a notorious slaver and then refusing to buy any products from companies who benefitted from slavery, now or then, I'll be more content.
As it is, I see people turning up to tear the statue down in the very fucking clothing that's being made by actual slaves right now. Taking photos of it on phones whose minerals are mined by actual slaves, right now. Telling all their friends about it on social media platforms hosted by companies supporting actual slavery right now. — Isaac
I presume you have a phone like everyone else. — Baden
Committing to disband an entire police force is a big step — Baden
As it is, I see people turning up to tear the statue down in the very fucking clothing that's being made by actual slaves right now. Taking photos of it on phones whose minerals are mined by actual slaves, right now. Telling all their friends about it on social media platforms hosted by companies supporting actual slavery right now. — Isaac
The reason why there is a lack of will is because our social structures are still set up to reward indicators of group membership klike having the right phone, being on the right social media platform) and again, it's not coincidence that these very narratives are being filled with identification tokens which are conveniently of no harm to capitalists. — Isaac
That was a rhetorical question. I’m sure is against private individuals who dislike people because of their skin color, and I’m sure he would want to change their attitude. That’s why wonder why he insists on that narrow definition. For him only systemic racism is racism.You don’t call that racism, so I suppose you don’t find it necessary to fight against it.
— Congau
These responses are a bit rabid. You keep labelling people in simplistic terms. If someone questions a definition they’re regarded as accessories to racism. This is really making me question the real intent of many posts. — Brett
Let's not pretend that statues are a neutral form of speech; they're not part of a scientific discourse — fdrake
So the second function; they are ideological symbols; the cast body of the person stands in for the spinned old stories they're involved with; they're metonyms. — fdrake
People haven't decided they're not going to tolerate slavery anymore, they tolerate it daily by their very purchases, but by tearing a statue down they get to re-write the narrative in exactly the same way that putting it up did. "We [the protestors] dismantled slavery, we must have done, look at the lack of symbol" — Isaac
Have you any suggestions? — ernestm
There is a debate raging in the UK about which statues should be pulled down and if it is justified to pull them down and how to determine which should, or shouldn't be pulled down. People are saying should we now pull down the statue of Churchill in parliament square.
I was there when this happened, nice Mohican.
I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.
On the subject of India, Winston is not quite sane... I didn't see much difference between his outlook and Hitler's — Leo Amery
Droll. You complained about presentism, I set out common declarations of his time on the basic of which he could be considered a war criminal and racist. So no presentism. What other problems do you have with this qualification?
Nothing but straw. As I said there is a debate about these issues.Barbarism premised on presentism. It’s Year Zero nonsense.
there is a demographic divide here and the young are on message about equality and tackling racism, like being on message on climate change and a need for more socialist political policies. — Punshhh
Is somebody here saying that to you?Well it doesn't matter, I'm just an over-privileged white animal with a despicable education at a useless shithole called Oxford, where I was taught, according to Rousseau's theory of truth by consensus, it must all be true. I dont really have anything more constructive to offer than that currently. — ernestm
I think symbols are also rallying points. Destroying a racist symbol can in fact be motivating, first in the accomplishment of the goal in itself - see, we can make a difference and second, due to symbols being understood in more ways than the abstract policy, debate or speech. So more people will get it as they don't reach the insight through rational deliberation but through feeling. — Benkei
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.