:up: It's hard to imagine a more terrible analogy for democratic governance than a doctor's visit. The former being a question of self-governance, the latter being a pliant - usually sick - subject looking to an authority to tell them how to achieve a sense of normalcy again.

It makes you wonder what people expect from elections these days.

The medical analogy is sadly common today: government as a case of maintaining the mere homeostasis of society, a bureaucracy of bare life where political questions - ones that address structural inequality, of accountability, of flourishing - are miserably absent. There's a whole very rich literature on 'biopolitics' as the overarching paradigm of political thought today. People want to be spoon-fed their politics like a doctor's patient.

Actually tim wood has opened up a very interesting angle with which to look at things.

I just searched biopolitics, specifically Michel Foucault. Interesting.

I'm not a predator!

Thank you for the research. Most of the news is caught up in the moment, understandably, but the policy makers and leaders [do we any longer have true "leaders?"] should be preparing the population for the longer term.

are you vegan or summats?

No. I guess I'm like a scavenger.

So the black death mkII has killed 1 in 1300 people in the UK...over half of which were 80 years+ old and well over 90% had serious underlying illness. MkI seems to have been a bit worse than mkII...but those on the political left still seem to be shitting themselves and want us to remain in perpetual lockdown . The left loves locking society down it seems.

So the black death mkII has killed 1 in 1300 people in the UK...over half of which were 80 years+ old and well over 90% had serious underlying illness. MkI seems to have been a bit worse than mkII...but those on the political left still seem to be shitting themselves and want us to remain in perpetual lockdown . The left loves locking society down it seems.

Isn’t Johnson a conservative?

I think in political terms it’s less left and right as it is authoritarian vs libertarian.

A real question. There's been much talk about false negatives in covid testing, saying it's up to 30%. I've read false positives are very rare.

How do you know you have a false negative or false positive? If symptomatology is the gold standard, why have testing?

Isn’t Johnson a conservative? — NOS4A2

Boris Johnson is an anarcho-communist.

No, he's an egoist.

How do you know you have a false negative or false positive? If symptomatology is the gold standard, why have testing? — Hanover

There are several tests. The one that's been giving the most false negatives is a fast test (20 min).

The CDC's test is supposed to be 100% accurate.

he's a flower child.

A real question. There's been much talk about false negatives in covid testing, saying it's up to 30%. I've read false positives are very rare.

How do you know you have a false negative or false positive? If symptomatology is the gold standard, why have testing? — Hanover

False negatives will occur with RT-PCR tests if there isn't enough virus in the sample to be detected. While there's no certainty that a person doesn't have the virus with a negative test, the likelihood can be improved by testing on different days or with different tests.

The good news, as frank notes, is that positive RT-PCR tests are 100% accurate. That is, they only test positive if a unique virus signature is detected.

Whereas false positives are a big issue with serological/antibody tests since the detected antibodies may have been caused by a different infection (including other coronaviruses).

Edit: Clarification about positive RT-PCR tests

The good news, as frank notes, is that they are 100% accurate. That is, they only test positive if a unique virus signature is detected. — Andrew M

I don't believe that's the case.

I don't believe that's the case. — Benkei

See the earlier discussion and papers referenced here and here. If you still disagree, do you have a reference?

Note: Clarified comment you responded to in case that was the issue

Isn’t Johnson a conservative?

I think in political terms it’s less left and right as it is authoritarian vs libertarian.

Chester just blames everything on the left, you know the commies. It's like when someone blames everything on the Democrats.

The left loves locking society down it seems.

Your going to get what you want now. Cummings and Johnson have trashed the lockdown now anyway. Although not through careful strategy, but rather a Laurel and Hardy sketch.

Cummings (Laurel) inadvertently spills a can of yellow paint, that was balanced on the top of a door, over Hardy's ( Johnson's) head and then Hardy pulls Laurels trouser front and pours a jug of piranha fish down them. And they both stand there looking like a shambles with a satisfied look on their faces.

Genius!

I think Johnson is a libertarian. He's a bit of a political shape shifter though ...but luckily he's also a bit of an egoist which , imo, means he will try carry out that which he has promised in order to look like the conquering hero. I like the way he has stuck with Cummings regardless of the pressure and the loss of support, it gives me faith that he is a man of his word. Cummings is despised by the remainer establishment because he will get Brexit properly done ...Johnson sticking with him shows his courage and intent imo...good signs.

The media in the UK keep bleating on about Cummings breaking the rules, they pretend they speak for the people and that most people are angry...this is disingenuous...most people in the UK have been breaking the rules, not just Cummings. These rules were created to be broken...to a degree.

The political left are directly responsible for untold economic misery and the death of millions...but that doesn't mean that I don't believe there should be rules for the benefit of people within the capitalist system (minimum wages etc).Being on the political right doesn't mean you believe in a complete capitalist free for all.

The lockdown needs to end before it wipes out the economy. As an example, the roofing firm that I work for has had two large jobs cancelled, one for a business within the aircraft manufacturing industry and another on a school. Those jobs would have kept me busy through most of the summer, now they don't exist and I'm furloughed. This is not sustainable and the longer it goes on the bigger the damage to the economy...the economy pays for your religion the NHS...

The only good news that I can see coming out of this mess is that we redirect our economy to be less dependent on China and the EU.

The test method is close to fool proof. Nevertheless about 1 to 8% false positives occur with these type of tests due to laboratory conditions. Human error unfortunately. Depends a lot on which country it even which testing facility you're talking about.

The lockdown needs to end before it wipes out the economy. — Chester

Even if you ease the social distancing rules, it won't help. We will have the economic downturn independent of easing of lockdown measures. The spike in unemployment and the consequences of social distancing (like basically stopping tourism etc.) will hurt the economy even if you want everything to get back to what it was earlier. Aggregate demand has collapsed. People know that we are in a recession. There's no V-shaped recovery.

The simple reason is that this is over only after the pandemic has gone over.

What concerns me is that the chaos which will ensue in the Middle East — Punshhh

Those are my concerns as well, not just for the Middle East, but for modern civilization more generally. The pandemic is horrible, but we have survived worse ones in the past. What civilization might not survive is our reaction to this pandemic. If the pandemic undermines the stability of one or more of the major nations of the world the resulting geo-political chaos could prove quite problematic.

In the 1930s we had the Great Depression, a fairly routine and predictable part of the business cycle. The stress of the Depression pushed an already weakened Germany over the edge, causing the German people to reach for drastic solutions which proved to be catastrophic.

In our times globalization has undermined confidence in significant segments of the world's population, causing them to reach for other extreme solutions in a variety of countries.

The modern world is a very delicate and complicated business, and any threat to the status quo has the potential to spin out of control.

I think you're probably right...I just hope we do rebuild our economy in order to be more self reliant (or at least diversify supply lines ) in the future. We need to be less dependent on China and the EU, that is clear.

I think you're probably right too...

The test method is close to fool proof. Nevertheless about 1 to 8% false positives occur with these type of tests due to laboratory conditions. Human error unfortunately. Depends a lot on which country it even which testing facility you're talking about. — Benkei

Do you have a reference for the 1-8% false positives? I'm curious how those numbers could be arrived at even granting human error or poor lab protocols.

As I understand it, a lab has to initially test samples from a reference lab to demonstrate that they are doing their tests correctly. Secondly, they would normally run controls to rule out issues such as cross-contamination.

Now suppose a sample was contaminated and tests positive. How would anyone know it was a false positive? It seems to me that either they wouldn't know or, if they did (per their controls), they would discard the sample.