People can actually knowingly commit evil, at least in the sense that they're fully under the impression that they're doing or about to do is wrong but they do it anyway. — BitconnectCarlos
You CANNOT say something is good or evil, and it hold any logical weight, unless there is a judge. — Qwex
And as far as that goes, whether we were talking "humans" specifically, or a race of aliens or androids who were comparable to humans in terms of their inherant faculties, I believe that the same scenarios would apply. — IvoryBlackBishop
Well, as far as the legal systems of any 1st world nations go, humans can and do judge good and bad, so it's your word against theirs, unless you claim to be "god" or to speak for god. — IvoryBlackBishop
I believe humans are motivated primarily by a desire to be happy. When a person's actions do not contribute to or even undermine their happiness, I consider those actions ignorant. — Tzeentch
So if evil is in our nature and we have "tendencies" then doesn't that mean, since "tendencies" sounds like we have no or little control in the matter, we lack free will? If we don't have free will and can't make choices against our "tendencies" which you say can be both good and bad, then how does that weigh in on the free will defense argument for the problem of evil? We're simply being led by the nose by our "tendencies". — TheMadFool
Well, I don’t agree with this part. We think we want to be happy, but for the most part we don’t even know what it IS to be happy. I think our strongest motivation is fear, but I believe there is an underlying impetus to increase awareness, connection and collaboration, which can operate at its fullest capacity in humanity - although it rarely does. — Possibility
What is the process by which one overrides our tendencies? How do you which are your tendencies? — TheMadFool
Free will. We don’t have to be angry. We can chose to manage it, or not. We can take something lying around that’s not ours or we can leave it. We can lie or chose not to. We can chose to fight or not to. The tendencies, like I said, swing between good and the absence of good, which is evil. Your problem, it seems to me, with this is that the three cannot exist in one person: evil, good and free will. — Brett
In some individuals the prefrontal cortex doesn’t override the impulsions of the limbic system no matter how much they try. Their emotions are in effect uncontrollable. — Noah Te Stroete
Of course not all people who have been through such childhood experiences are unable to manage their impulses, or they at least manage it to the degree it’s not destructive. — Brett
Could you be more specific with what part you don't agree? Because to me it seems like we're mostly in agreement.
Maybe I would add that fear and happiness are closely related, in the sense that fear almost always directly interferes without our desire to be happy. — Tzeentch
Increasing awareness, connection and collaboration enables us to face specific fears, but not to eliminate fear altogether. Joy comes and goes - we will always find it where we are so long as we’re not afraid of experiencing pain, humility, loss or lack. But ‘happiness’ is not a permanent state to strive for - there is no permanent state except non-existence, and success in achieving a state of ‘happiness’ entails an ignorance of the inevitability of change. — Possibility
We think we want to be happy, but for the most part we don’t even know what it IS to be happy. — Possibility
I think our strongest motivation is fear, — Possibility
Free will. We don’t have to be angry. We can chose to manage it, or not. We can take something lying around that’s not ours or we can leave it. We can lie or chose not to. We can chose to fight or not to. The tendencies, like I said, swing between good and the absence of good, which is evil. Your problem, it seems to me, with this is that the three cannot exist in one person: evil, good and free will. — Brett
All I'm saying is there's no need to carry coal to Newcastle. If evil is a tendency then god allowing evil so that we may have free will doesn't make sense. Imagine I create a robot and program it with a tendency towards evil. Now, if my explanation for whatever immorality that follows is that I wanted the robot to have free will, then people will not buy my argument. The robot is evil even without free will; in fact if free will has any role, it would be to allow the robot to be good, not bad. — TheMadFool
At the very start of this thread it was claimed that humans have an innate tendency towards immoral behavior.
I disagreed, stating that humans have an innate tendency towards being happy, but that their ignorance leads them pursue things that do not make them happy and to do things that are immoral. — Tzeentch
Suffering is baked into the cake because people are so selfish that they think they are entitled to a creation for each individual’s desires. We were given a “Garden of Eden” and managed to live in harmony with it for tens of thousands of years. Don’t blame God for humanity’s hubris that we should all be entitled to creations for each individual taste. We think we know better than God. You are a puny human who should be grateful that you are even alive in this man-made hell. — Noah Te Stroete
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