Right, because we are referencing a standard of what an inch is, that we’ve agreed upon.
So 7” inches is what the length is in inches, and 5” is not what the length in inches. Right?
So if a person agrees to the standard of measurement of an “inch”, their feeling about 5” can be shown not to be the case as it doesnt match the standard being used. (The measuring tape will show that 7” is the length in inches).
The subjective feeling, in other words, of 5” inches is not correct according to the standard being used. — DingoJones
Per the particular standard it would be 7" , sure. — Terrapin Station
That's equivocating the sense of "feeling" or disposition I was using, however. Because in this case we're rather trying to get an objective fact correct. When we're talking about moral stances, there is no objective fact to get correct. — Terrapin Station
Ok, so we get 7” not from a reference to anything subjective, but rather from referencing the agreed upon standard. Right? — DingoJones
It's not equivocating. — S
Yes, thats how the standard is created/adopted, subjectively. Im not talking about that.
Once that is done, it isnt our feelings that we reference, its the standard. If we feel like its 5”, that feeling is incorrect. The measuring tape is what tells us the length of the stick in inches, not our feelings. We are not making a reference to how we feel (subjective). — DingoJones
Yeah, it is. It's taking a term I was applying to one idea, one reference, and applying the same term to a different idea, a different reference instead. — Terrapin Station
In order for there to be a correct idea of an inch, there has to be an objective normative, a normative fact, but there are no normative facts, and we can't create any. — Terrapin Station
The correct answer is that it's 7”, regardless, because that's the standard determining the answer in this case, and you both agreed to that. — S
Parliament need not have debates because there are no facts of the matter to be discussed — Isaac
I said that per that standard, it's 7" , but the standard isn't correct. Per other standards, other definitions of "inch," it's a different number. — Terrapin Station
f that's the standard you're going by, then in that context it's the correct answer, — S
Per other standards, other definitions of "inch," it's a different number. — Terrapin Station
But there are no other standards — Isaac
That's fine, as the measurement is an objective fact and you can match or fail to match an objective fact. Moral stances are not objective facts. — Terrapin Station
The core of them is so widely agreed upon that when discussing normative ethics we do not need to take into account variations widely outside of that core, anymore than when measuring something we do not ever say "what do you mean 'six inches'? Your inches, or my inches". The issue never arises, not because inches are an objective value, but because they are so widely agreed upon. — Isaac
Your objection amounts to either an endorsement of conformism or an ego-oriented fiat, depending on where the pendulum is. — Terrapin Station
Must. Not. Be. Too. Different. — Terrapin Station
The laughter is at your ego. — Terrapin Station
You can invent them all day long. — Terrapin Station
Did you miss all of my comments about normatives, re how it's not correct to conform to the norm, etc.? We're not disagreeing over whether there's a norm or what it is. We're disagreeing that the norm is correct or that it implies a normative a la what anyone should do, etc. — Terrapin Station
As to the original post... free speech is necessary to progress. Stupid speech needs to be expressed to expose the stupidity of it and lessen stupid action because generally hearing stupid speech - helps it be corrected. If someone keeps their stupid ideas to themselves and just acts on them without bouncing them off others, that tends to be more problematic than saying words that offend someone. — Amore
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.