I haven't noticed any particularly unpleasant exchanges recently, but I suppose it depends which topics we follow. For all I know, the OP is complaining about me. :yikes: I hope not, but one man's supporter is another woman's troll, as we might put it. Courtesy is the only way to run any forum, assuming we wish to avoid the typical online unpleasantness.

Chasing and harassing - ask yourself if it's worthy or worth it. — Amity

:up: :smile:

I haven't noticed any particularly unpleasant exchanges recently, but I suppose it depends which topics we follow. For all I know, the OP is complaining about me. — Pattern-chaser

This thread follows on from exchanges in the Donald Trump thread.
If you want to, you can look under @tim wood 'Comments' for detail.
Of course it's not about you - dummkopf :smile:

it's not about you - dummkopf — Amity

How kind, I think. :chin: :smile: :blush:

Always :halo:
Well...that could be a lie :wink:

Of course they could, but the sun 'could' explode in the next three seconds, we 'could' all suddenly lose the ability to read... But we don't act as if that were the case. We act with a presumption of expected result based on our theories. We presume consistent patterns will continue to be so until overwhelmingly contradicted by evidence to the contrary. So why shouldn't we treat plausible beliefs in the same way? — Isaac

Unlike the sun, you can never observe the way the person's beliefs match up with what they say.

Oh and S, if you're on the moon with Chevy Chase, then who the fuck is this I'm on Mars with? — Isaac

If it's Professor Brian Cox, I'm not going to be happy.

Unlike the sun, you can never observe the way the person's beliefs match up with what they say. — Terrapin Station

And yet we can still spot a lie. Miraculous!

If it's Professor Brian Cox, I'm not going to be happy. — S

I thought Chevy wasn't as funny in real life as I was expecting...

...and he keeps banging on about stars...

This thread follows on from exchanges in the Donald Trump thread.
If you want to, you can look under tim wood 'Comments' for detail. — Amity

Is there any other poster than tim doesn't figure is a liar or a troll, though?

This thread follows on from exchanges in the Donald Trump thread.
If you want to, you can look under tim wood 'Comments' for detail.
— Amity

Is there any other poster than tim doesn't figure is a liar or a troll, though? — Terrapin Station

Yes. I note a few more have made their opinions known as to a certain poster.
(I have given up following the Trump thread; it's become rather tedious ).
However, only tim has started a thread related to the heated exchanges. And so, I think his 'Comments' are worth looking at as particular examples.

We can of course look at others...who have reacted and the ways in which they met/meet this kind of challenging behaviour in that thread and elsewhere. They might even respond here...

Is there any other poster that tim doesn't figure is a liar or a troll, though? — Terrapin Station

The point of course being that he has been known to make rash judgements and to jump to conclusions in this regard, and I'd have to agree. Not wanting to restart beef, Tim, just saying it how I see it. The elephant in the room this time is obviously NOS4A2, and Tim's opening post is basically just a verbose attack piece on him, with the intent of seeking attention, gathering supporters, and of influencing the decision-making of the site staff. It's a lynching, basically. Gather your pitchforks, fellow villagers!

I hadn't bothered with the Trump thread much, as I don't like the typical opinions of either side--either the pro or anti-Trump folks.

I'll have to look at it to see what happened to spark this thread, though.

Unlike the sun, you can never observe the way the person's beliefs match up with what they say. — Terrapin Station

Of course you can. If, after saying "I'm off down the pub for a drink" someone proceeds to walk towards the pub and orders a drink it's a pretty safe bet that's because they believed the pub was located in that place and served drinks thus.

It could be coincidence, but the idea that coincidences are unlikely is the basis of most relational knowledge.

??

When do we get to the part where we're observing their beliefs?

When do we get to the part where we're observing their beliefs? — Terrapin Station

That part is silly. That we can't literally observe someone's beliefs has no bearing on anything. That's not a reasonable approach to the matter, Terrapin.

The bearing it has here is that lying is a matter of someone saying something that's contrary to what they actually believe.

The bearing it has here is that lying is a matter of someone saying something that's contrary to what they actually believe. — Terrapin Station

That doesn't explain why you think that it's necessary to literally observe someone's beliefs.

It seems like that should be obvious. To know that someone is saying something different than they believe, we have to be able to compare what they said with what they believe.

It seems like that should be obvious. To know that someone is saying something different than they believe, we have to be able to compare what they said with what they believe. — Terrapin Station

You're still not justifying your stance, because we can do that without literally opening up someone's skull and taking a look inside their brain where you presumably think their beliefs reside, and then comparing that with what they said.

We can know what someone believes in many cases through common sense, although I would understand if that was a problem for you.

You're still not justifying your stance, because we can do that without literally opening up someone's skull and taking a look inside their brain where you presumably think their beliefs reside, and then comparing that with what they said. — S

That wouldn't work even, because mental content is only observable to the bearer, because it's what it's like to BE the brain in question.

We can know what someone believes through common sense? Hahahahaha

Talk about not justifying something

That wouldn't work even, because mental content is only observable to the bearer, because it's what it's like to BE the brain in question.

We can know what someone believes through common sense? Hahahahaha

Talk about not justifying something — Terrapin Station

Hahahahahahahaha, yes, it's so absurd that through common sense, which you act as though you lack, we can know that I don't really believe that I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase!

It's much more sensible to believe that it's a big mystery! After all, I could be crazy, right! Kukoo, kukoo!

:brow:

Hahahahahahahaha, yes, it's so absurd that through common sense, which you act as though lack, we can know that I don't really believe that I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase! — S

If someone says, "I believe I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase," and you go, "Really? You believe that?" And they say, "Yes, I do," etc. then how would "common sense" tell you what they believe? How do you figure that works?

If someone says, "I believe I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase," and you go, "Really? You believe that?" And they say, "Yes, I do," etc. then how would "common sense" tell you what they believe? How do you figure that works? — Terrapin Station

Because if they don't act, or continue to converse in any way as if they were on the moon with Chevy Chase, then it's unlikely that they believe that they are.

If someone says, "I believe I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase," and you go, "Really? You believe that?" And they say, "Yes, I do," etc. then how would "common sense" tell you what they believe? How do you figure that works? — Terrapin Station

No, no, I'm agreeing with you. It's all a big mystery. Even though we've spent a great deal of time communicating with each other over the years, you genuinely think that I could really be crazy enough to believe something so patently absurd. :ok: :lol:

People very often say that they believe things that I think are patently absurd, with philosophy being one of the primary milieu culprits. So it's not as if I'm surprised at any crazy thing anyone believes.

People saying things that I think are patently absurd is one of the things that attracted me to philosophy in the first place, and it's pretty much what I focus on in my comments.

"I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase" isn't any more absurd than "meaning isn't subjective," "speech is causal to others' actions," etc.

So, without cracking any jokes, in all sincerity, you really think that I'm the kind of person who could right now believe that I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase? Or that I'm an ostrich? Or that space whales are about to launch an imminent attack on humankind?

So, without cracking any jokes, you really think that I'm the kind of person who could right now believe that I'm on the moon with Chevy Chase? Or that I'm an ostrich? Or that space whales are about to launch an imminent attack on humankind? — S

If you say you believe those things, sure.

You're the type of person who believes that (we can show that) speech is causal to others' actions, for example, right? I'm not joking when I say that I find that patently absurd.

Haha, okay, this is just too much. I'm done. Thanks for the entertainment.

A member of a philosophy forum who has a pattern of making wild claims and not supporting such claim should be banned, in my opinion.

But in all seriousness, that was mostly good advice. Except for the part about finding fault. That's exactly what you should be doing. The less faults, the stronger the end product. The sooner they're identified, the sooner they can be addressed. — S

I hoped no one would notice I didn't get into this. So, thanks for that.

I agree to a point. My posts here disagree with some of what Tim wrote, but they still seem constructive to me. I his contributions thoughtful and helpful. I've been known to comment when I think a post is weak or poorly thought through. I've sometimes commented when I think someone is getting off OP or is being disruptive. I have been passionately blunt when I think someone's ideas are objectionable. I try to criticize the argument and not the poster.

Did I mention not calling anyone a dick? You helped me out with that one by giving me many opportunities to practice turning the other cheek.

Did I mention not calling anyone a dick? You helped me out with that one by giving me many opportunities to practice turning the other cheek. — T Clark

:grin: :point: