Sure. And even with, well, theists who are not like this, or really anyone who does not share your beliefs, it's a rare discussion that changes people's minds. And there are very few actual open minds out there, even though many people like to constrast themselves with whomever their ideological or paradigmatic enemies are. It doesn't even have to be dishonest. People's minds will slide away from discomfort or put your arguments in grooves, rather than responding to them specifically. This is common here and I am sure it happens with me also. We do not like cognitive dissonence. In all the arguments and discussions I have read online, it has so rarely happened that anyone has every said 'You point here I think must be wrong, but so far I can't see why.' Let me get back to you on that. And that's in discussions between secular people also. I do see people concede points, though it's rare. But actually admitting being stumped but not ready to give in - a very common and natural state - I almost never see written down online or hear it in live discussions. There are other types of admission I never see either. Generally speaking most posts will contain statements of certainty, no concessions, and this can go on between two or more quite rational and very intelligent people for page after page. That simply can't be a full disclosure type of discussion. They must be hopping over moments of confusion or not even noticing points they didn't like the feel of or missing that they slightly changed the argument they are responding two, or shifted the context and so on. Defenders of the faith may well deserve their rep, but I think the difference is more one of elegance and subtlety than stubbornness and irrationality.That seems like the most logical thing to do. I mean, defenders of a faith are usually well practiced, and will go to any lengths to argue their beliefs, even in a dishonest way. They're like trained soldiers. — Purple Pond
where are the 'old-fashioned atheists' nowadays who can provide me with the intellectual tools to reinforce my atheistic beliefs? — Purple Pond
Proclaiming 'no God' as true for sure fails just as much as proclaiming 'God' as true for sure because neither can be shown to be fact; — PoeticUniverse
You don't need to defend NOT believing in something. — khaled
That would only be the case if nothing can shown to be a fact. But I wouldn't say that. — Terrapin Station
Almost nothing can be shown to be a fact. — Pattern-chaser
Recognition and acceptance only seem possible if you retain a strictly flexible approach, don't you think? — Pattern-chaser
More specifically, I've lost some of my ability to defend myself from attacks on my atheistic beliefs. — Purple Pond
You make a good point. However, the OP was about atheism, no? — Noah Te Stroete
Dawkins — DingoJones
I think I've lost something. More specifically, I've lost some of my ability to defend myself from attacks on my atheistic beliefs. — Purple Pond
I didnt read any of his books, Im not even a particular fan of his but it provokes my sensibilities when people, anyone even someone like Trump, are demonised. If someone is evil or otherwise shitty, then an honest and fair treatment will bare that out. — DingoJones
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