As I understand it, competitive bodybuilding is massively unhealthy. — Txastopher

Because of?

This is the male parallel of shaming the female body to sell stuff. Bring in all that feminist critique thereof and apply it here. — Banno

All true; but, isn't that the kettle calling the pot back?

How so?

How so? — Banno

Well, two wrongs don't really make a right, so calling the objectification of females by all males wouldn't constitute only a pot-kettle analogy but a gross overgeneralization too.

One does these things unconsciously, though, as their aptly called biases.

The standard objectification shtick is nonsense anyway.

Meh. That does not strike me as of much use in understanding what is going on. Rather it's the manipulation of images of the desirability of specific gender traits in order to sell stuff that is the issue. The strategies that worked so well on women for so long are now being applied to men; set an impossible goal and you can sell the gullible stuff for ever - or until they break.

Rather it's the manipulation of images of the desirability of specific gender traits in order to sell stuff that is the issue. — Banno

Well, that is de facto the definition of objectification. Or at least applied objectification.

And?

Nevermind, I don't know where you're going with this. Just spill the beans already!

I don't see anything neurotic about someone taking up bodybuilding. It's just another sort of goal, and goals give meaning to our life. It does no harm to anybody else and, although a muscle-bound body-builder is less healthy than a lean athlete, I expect they are more healthy than if they were obese and sedentary.

Using drugs can be problematic, because of all the side effects. But I imagine bodybuilding without drugs could be as healthy and harmless as playing tennis or the cello.

Somebody said that a bodybuilder physique is considered the ideal. I don't think that's correct. Ancient Greek and Roman statues favour proportionate, healthy body types with sold, well-defined, but not overly large muscles. When I have discussed this with people that are attracted to men, that is the message I have received. My observation from these discussions is that the idealised body type is that of an Australian Rules footballer.

Interesting. So, the heart valve complications and issues with heart disease can' be mitigated in any way?

That's not a mark.


This is a mark:

Watch 'em fly! Wonderful stuff.

I don't see anything neurotic about someone taking up bodybuilding. — andrewk

Yep. Unless bodybuilding is taken on as a way of stretching towards some notion of bodily perfection that is imposed by others. Then it is problematic.

Yep. Unless bodybuilding is taken on as a way of stretching towards some notion of bodily perfection that is imposed by others. — Banno

Who's "others"?

Them.

Them. — Banno

Who bay that be?

bay?
may.

This silly twisting of what was said does you proud.

SO is your point a profound rejection of existentialist thought that points to how there is never really an "other"?

Or are you just playing sillybuggers.

↪Wall — Banno

Or are you just playing sillybuggers. — Banno

dunno you tell me.

Ah. It's a game of "last post wins"?

Ah. It's a game of "last post wins"? — Banno

Whatever floats your boat.

What would float my boat would be someone progressing the discussion...

Banno, the trouble with this sort of existential critique is that there never really is an "other". While each person develops their essence by their choices, each choice is made within a social context, a social construct. SO choosing to not be a body builder because it is inauthentic is as inauthentic as choosing to be a body builder; both fit in with the expectations of others; in the one case, those who would sell body building products; in the other, those who would sell existentialism. Being authentic is as ideal a goal as having the perfect body. — Wallows

Now, if you had said that, I might have cause to stop and think. But instead...

Now, if you had said that, I might have cause to stop and think. But instead... — Banno

So, I say that neurotic men congregate towards the attainment of a perfect body? What's wrong with that? Perhaps too much generalizing?

As I understand it, competitive bodybuilding is massively unhealthy.
— Txastopher

Because of? — Terrapin Station

Because it cause some of those who engage in it to have serious health problems?

too much generalizing? — Wallows

Human behavior is loaded with neuroticism. It just goes with the territory [of being human].

There is nothing inherently bad about spending hours at the gym sculpting one's physique. What might make it neurotic is the motivation. For instance, a man might be attempting to compensate for a low estimation of his personal worth by trying to make himself buff. Kind of neurotic. Someone else might engage in the same sculpting activity because he is a model and will get more jobs if he has the right physique.

Men who are jealous of other men who have gym-dandy physiques are neurotic.

I spent quite a bit of time on a nude beach one summer getting an all over tan. The act of undressing in public resolved all sorts of neurotic body issues. For somebody else, undressing in public might cause neuroses.

People are at least a little crazy. It's called the psychopathology of everyday life. People who eat compulsively. People who don't bathe, floss, shampoo, trim, etc. People who shoplift for excitement. People who engage in sex they don't want. People who won't have the sex they do want. Road rage. It's all crazy. Neurotic.

Because it cause some of those who engage in it to have serious health problems? — Txastopher

Examples?

Because it cause some of those who engage in it to have serious health problems?
— Txastopher

Examples? — Terrapin Station

Examples

Which one of those would you say are good evidence of it being unhealthy?

If we're simply saying that it's possible to hurt yourself should you do particular things, that's true, but it's true of anything, including eating, walking to your bathroom, etc.

I hate it when someone in a discussion says, “Just Google it.” It’s as if he is saying, “I’m too lazy to cite examples to bolster my argument, so you should do the work for me.”

Yeah, and in this case it gives the impression of "I don't know--why don't you look it up! There must be something you could find that suggests what I just claimed if you look hard enough."

:up:

The OP asks if bodybuilders are poor neurotic men, which logically asks three combined questions: Are they poor, are they neurotic, AND are they men? As to the last question, it's clearly not, considering some bodybuilders are women, and the question being linked with the conjunctive, the question is properly answered in the negative.

Perhaps a uselessly technical reply, but one I am satisfied with.