I asked them to define homosexuality - what "gay" is. They couldn't do it, and they acknowledged that it couldn't be done. That is, is there a sine qua non either of being or not being gay, or with respect to any aspect of sexuality? — tim wood
I find that ridiculous, as, I can say with confidence, would many others, whether gay, straight, or other. Clearly there is meaning enough to come up with at least a working definition. — Sapientia
A woman trapped in a man's body. — Banno
When someone says that they are a man in a woman's body or a woman in a man's body what they are really saying is that they are a man or a woman, respectively, with a mental illness, — Harry Hindu
That is, the whole what it is like to be... is logically fraught. — Banno
They were "overthinking" it because I asked them to. The question, which I think you have resolved to any reasonable person's satisfaction, was if there was any absolute criteria or standard by which a male, on the basis of the standard, could be reckoned gay or not gay. I challenged them with it because I was persuaded that existing "criteria" as I know of them were a) misused and b) not real criteria in any case. I figured if anyone knew, these guys would.The professional social workers were, most likely, "over-thinking" the question, — Bitter Crank
To me it seems less that she is interested in interiority as much as she is interested in the legal protections afforded to personal claims on identity. It's a question of political philosophy more than it is a question of mind or metaphysics or epistemology. yes? — Moliere
But is there such a thing as a homosexual? is there such a thing as a heterosexual? As a practical matter, of course! Beyond that? Well, you'd need a test of some sort, wouldn't you, and self-identification wouldn't do, would it. — tim wood
Your answer, as I understand it, is that there is no such test — tim wood
Yes, one can be wrong about one's gender identity. — Moliere
My intuitions are more in alignment with the notion that there is nothing it is like to be a man or woman, that gender is performative. — Moliere
So I ask you: do you really think the gay social workers are unable to define what a homosexual is? — Bitter Crank
So I ask you: do you really think the gay social workers are unable to define what a homosexual is? How, for instance, do they find sexual partners? How do they assess whether someone they have had sex with all night is a one night stand or a potential for a longer relationship? I submit they go by the sorts of tests I provided.
A heterosexual is what a heterosexual does. Heterosexual men court and have sex with women--again and again. Is there some mystery still lurking here? — Bitter Crank
Then you have rejected the notion of gender identity as Rebecca sets it out, and we are pretty much in agreement. That's fine — Banno
Hmm. At one stage Rebecca points out that it would be far simpler to refer to one's genitals than a brain scan to determine one's gender. I have to agree with her that gender is not completely performative. It's not just a social construct, because there are observable physical differences between men and women. But the social superstructure built on the basis of these differences is absurd. One's genitals ought play no part in one's income, for example - yet the evidence shows that it does. — Banno
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