Does doing the wrong thing unintentionally (perhaps out of ignorance or fear) free a person from the responsibility of saying sorry? — darthbarracuda
My view is that, no, a person should still apologize for what they have done even if they did it accidentally or did not mean to do the wrong thing, because apologizing is a way of communicating your recognition that what you did was, in fact, wrong to do. Not apologizing for doing the wrong thing in general means you either don't think it actually was the wrong thing to do, or you have a character flaw that precludes you from admitting failure and assuming responsibility. — darthbarracuda
Whereas if you do something wrong by accident, then apologising is no big deal. You are not to blame. An accident is. You are apologising for an accident for which you are not responsible in any intentional sense. — apokrisis
The distinction between legal and moral responsibility? — Janus
But if you intentionally do the wrong thing, surely you must believe that in some larger way it is the right thing? So it would then be unreasonable to apologise - unless you have also come to believe you were in fact wrong and so changed your mind about what is right.
Whereas if you do something wrong by accident, then apologising is no big deal. You are not to blame. An accident is. You are apologising for an accident for which you are not responsible in any intentional sense. — apokrisis
So, if I accidentally back my car into your mailbox, I am not responsible? It's "the accident's" fault? — T Clark
People can do the wrong thing knowing it is the wrong thing because they do not care about morality, and care more about themselves or whatever. — darthbarracuda
If I were to crash my car into someone else's on accident, I would feel compelled to apologize even though I didn't do it on purpose. — darthbarracuda
So what would you actually do if you knocked over my mailbox? Would it depend on there being possible witnesses? — apokrisis
The problem with real life is there are always extenuating circumstances. Right and wrong can never be so black and white. — apokrisis
So now it is about property damage and adequate compensation?
Correct me if I’m wrong but the OP was about personal insult. If you hurt my feelings, you might want to show me that you are hurting just as much, and now we can be all square. Everyone equally happy in being equally unhappy. — apokrisis
That's what I wonder. Can people actually choose to do wrong? If they are making real world choices, they must weight the decision with many factors. And of course it is easy to rationalise and tip the balance the way that favours yourself and your interests. But that just says people construct some belief about whether they are overall in the right or in the wrong. And having done that, by definition really, they pick what is for them the "right".
Talk of intentionally picking the course you know to be wrong doesn't sound coherent. You are really talking about people picking the course they know you would likely judge wrong - but they would rather see what they want to do as right. — apokrisis
So your OP seemed to want a black and white absolute moral principle. But morality is normally pragmatic. — apokrisis
I'm feeling for myself, after some deliberation, that apology is part of a ritual or symbolic exchange. You make an apology when you believe that by such a speech act you will place yourself, and the person you're apologising to, in a better relation than your present mutual standing. That's it! — mcdoodle
you're still hung up on that? — darthbarracuda
I'll apologize when I think I actually did screw up and feel the other person deserves an apology. — darthbarracuda
I don't agree with what I see to be your reduction of moral rightness/wrongness to subjective or inter-subjective opinions — darthbarracuda
I'm feeling for myself, after some deliberation, that apology is part of a ritual or symbolic exchange. — mcdoodle
But I will say that apologizing only to get to a better standing with another person is insincere, even manipulative. — darthbarracuda
Either you're lying about not caring, or your intent is to create drama. — darthbarracuda
How is it relevant, though? You actually said you brought it up because you thought it was ironic. — darthbarracuda
But if morality is about collective social goals, then we instead hope that mature individuals are rational game players. They don't merely just follow norms blindly, nor ignore them selfishly, but play the social games creatively and strategically. — apokrisis
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