Sorry, even the heritage foundation doesn’t know how many illegals have voted in elections. There is no way to know either way if no one has to prove their citizenship. — NOS4A2

So there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

But if they wanted to, they could get one. That’s the reality. — NOS4A2

It's not as easy as you're pretending it is. As an example from here:

19% of Americans without a driver’s license said they didn’t have one because of bureaucratic or economic barriers, such as not being able to afford the license or not having underlying documents like a birth certificate or Social Security card.

...

US citizens of color are also more likely than white citizens not to have documents that prove their citizenship. For example, older Black voters in the South and Indigenous Americans who were not born in a hospital may not have a birth certificate at all.

So there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

“Widespread”. That word just seems to always find itself in front of “voter fraud” whenever an apologist speaks of it. Is plain old non-widespread voter fraud ok in your books?

It's not as easy as you're pretending it is. As an example from here:

It doesn’t follow from here that they should be allowed to drive, fly, or vote in what ought to be secure elections.

“Widespread”. That word just seems to always find itself in front of “voter fraud” whenever an apologist speaks of it. Is plain old non-widespread voter fraud ok in your books? — NOS4A2

Disenfranchising millions of eligible voters to prevent 1,600 ineligible votes over 40 years does more harm than good. If there were millions of fraudulent votes per election then ID laws would make more sense, but when there's barely any? It's absurd. It's like burning your house down to kill some spiders.

It doesn’t follow from here that they should be allowed to drive, fly, or vote in what ought to be secure elections. — NOS4A2

They absolutely should be allowed to vote.

All I'm hearing from you is "fuck poor people".

Disenfranchising millions of eligible voters to prevent 1,600 ineligible votes over 40 years does more harm than good. If there were millions of fraudulent votes per election then ID laws would make more sense, but when there's barely any? It's absurd. It's like burning your house down to kill some spiders.

So every country that requires ID to vote is disenfranchising millions of people. But I hear no one making such an argument against other countries, like Canada, Finland, France, Germany, Norway, New Zealand, Mexico, Argentina, UK, Sweden, Switzerland, Netherlands.

That no fraud is found is no argument that it never occurs. That’s a complete fallacy. The point of fraud is that it is not found. That’s the point of all criminal activity. And the fact that no “widespread” fraud occurs is not an argument that it does not exist. The point is to prevent fraud, not to prove past fraud.

Why do certain politicians not want voters to prove their citizenship, like other civilized countries? — NOS4A2

A driver's license will not be enough. Millions of women will have to provide a passport or a birth certificate. Many will not be able to. it's clearcut voter suppression.

In Canada, all we need is a driver's license

That no fraud is found is no argument that it never occurs.

:rofl: In the running for one of the stupidest things I’ve heard on this forum.

“There’s no evidence that the tooth fairy exists, but that’s not an argument that she doesn’t exist.”

And so why then do we think voter fraud exists? Well, Daddy Trump said so.

And he’s right: .0000845% fraud in Arizona over 25 years. About the percentage nationally — not once close to being significant, let alone altering an election— anywhere, ever. But yes, it exists. Easier to round down to 0, but it exists.

So don’t say it doesn’t exist; that’s a fallacy. Believing in something when there’s no evidence—definitely not a fallacy. :up: Welcome to the MAGA cult.

For those keeping score:

• Voter fraud: real.
  
• Affordability: hoax.
  
• Climate change: hoax.
  
• Vaccines: hoax.
  
• January 6th: a day of love.
  
• The economy: greatest in the history of the world.
  
• Tariffs: Great success.

Well, we Americans elected him…

You city gives you a birth certificate when born. — NOS4A2

So the babies are going to hang on to their birth certificates so that they'll be able to vote when they hit the legal age. Or maybe your mommy might do it for you? Life is good isn't it?

January 6th: a day of love. — Mikie

Where did February 14th go?

So the babies are going to hang on to their birth certificates so that they'll be able to vote when they hit the legal age. Or maybe your mommy might do it for you? Life is good isn't it?

What?

The Conservatives did bring in a requirement for voter ID in the U.K. two years ago on the back of populist lies that there was voter fraud going on which could sway elections. It did disenfranchise up to 2 million people in the 2024 general election while voter fraud is usually between one and five voters at each election.

It’s impossible for significant voter fraud to happen in the U.K. without it becoming known to the electoral commission. There are sufficient checks and safe guards in place to verify every single vote.

House Trump takes a different approach:

Goldman Sachs’ top lawyer Kathy Ruemmler to resign after emails show close ties to Jeffrey Epstein
^{— Ken Sweet · AP · Feb 13, 2026}
Goldman Sachs’ top lawyer Kathy Ruemmler to resign after emails show close ties to Jeffrey Epstein
^{— AP · Feb 13, 2026 · 36s}

Then:

Trump would make America’s inflation crisis worse, 16 Nobel economists warn

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/26/business/nobel-economists-trump-inflation

Now:

Inflation cooled in January, dropping to lowest level in 9 months

https://abcnews.com/amp/Business/inflation-expected-cooled-january/story?id=130059514

One of Obama’s top lawyers. It’s almost crazy they wanted this stuff out, then it keeps backfiring in their faces. So funny.