as it became more and more obvious that he’s senile. — Punshhh

Is this genuinely something you want to stand behind? Be very careful.

Rutte definitely is always saying that thanks to Trump, NATO countries are increasing their defense expenditure, — ssu

He was against the reckless expenditure when he was the prime minister of NL; now he is pushing for more expenditure just to woo Trump. Are they clowns, or am I the blind dude who is not seeing what is going on?

And lastly, NATO is actually an US created organization for US objectives, which the orange idiot never has understood — ssu

That's what I was about to say. It is hard to be a "neutral" NATO secretary general when the institution is oriented to protect and spread American interests, presence, and culture. I don't really want to see this conflict escalating, and I wish Greenland the best in their future, but if this [the issue] ends up screwed, at least we will have a reason to finally dissolve NATO and focus on something European—whatever it would be called or managed.

(which he does all the time and costs him nothing) — Tzeentch

Do you not realize that the entire free world has absolutely no respect for him?

you don't understand the game that is being played. — Tzeentch

Peace and security is not a game

Are they clowns, or am I the blind dude who is not seeing what is going on? — javi2541997

I think this, but I also think you're not a clown. Its entirely plausible (and indeed, seems maybe at the 51% probability mark) that it's just the shit show it looks like, and he's a total moron who has lost it.

But it also seems to me entirely plausible that, while "4d Chess" is some kind of invention of a cultish aspect of his base, there's intentionality to these things and he's perhaps willing to be seen the way you say above, while having achieved his initial goal and moving on with his... plan (that was hard to say lmao)

I don't know. But it seems plausible to me, and he seems happy enough to say it may be true.

when the institution is oriented to protect and spread American interests, presence, and culture. — javi2541997

That doesn't seem wholly accurate. It was set up (by Europe - not imposed by American) to prevent Soviet encroachment, and to ensure Europe retained American defense interest, rather than American withdrawing like after WWII. But you're right in terms of the conflict of interest.

That is not really true though, is it?

Seems more like wishful thinking for those who do genuinely have no respect for him which is fine. But Machado, Meloni, Orban, Milei, apparently, Rutte. They are just leaders you do not like. which is fine. But its best not to make statements that are untrue about a President. Like Cameron Kasky is finding out.

It was set up (by Europe - not imposed by American) to prevent Soviet encroachment, — AmadeusD

The irony is palpable when we have to set something up to prevent Soviet encroachment, but we look the other way when this attitude comes from Washington. What a terrible circus the politics are, mate. I don't like it.

I agree with the rest of your post.

He said a couple things (which he does all the time and costs him nothing) and managed to create panic in Europe, leading to them making concessions. — Tzeentch

I'm still confused as to what those concessions are exactly. From what I've heard about the framework deal it was essentially just the same arrangement that previously existed which already gave the US full control over Greenland's defense. At the very least when they did their thing in Venezuela they got Maduro. If he's gonna be risking a decades long alliance and causing Europe to seriously reconsider it's ties to the US then I was expecting something more tangible to be honest.

He was against the reckless expenditure when he was the prime minister of NL; now he is pushing for more expenditure just to woo Trump. Are they clowns, or am I the blind dude who is not seeing what is going on? — javi2541997

I don't think you are blind.

That talk "reckless expenditure" I assume is before his last years of being a prime minister (2010-2024). The Russian invasion of Ukraine change a lot. Prior I lived in a nonaligned country where nobody was seriously demanding the country to join NATO. It was an possible option in a theoretical future. So a lot has changed.

A country that allows a five-year-old to be detained, who uses him as bait, is broken

Is this genuinely something you want to stand behind? Be very careful.

It’s just my opinion after watching the speech. Can you say you watched it and found it coherent?

Definitely with you there!
Semi, but there's an insanely big (defamatory) leap between "babbling" and "senile". That's hte care I was indicating is needed.

That is not really true though, is it? — AmadeusD

You mean what I said about Trump not being respected? It is my considered opinion that leaders around the world recognize that Trump is to be handled, not respected. And his approval ratings around the world are absolutely dismal.

They are just leaders you do not like — AmadeusD

Now, who is making assumptions?

its best not to make statements that are untrue about a President. — AmadeusD

I have eyes to see, and ears to hear. There is nothing respectable about him.

Cameron Kasky — AmadeusD

Yes, he's been receiving a lot of death threats.

That very much may not be hte case. https://www.ms.now/news/dhs-denies-that-ice-used-a-5-year-old-as-bait-to-catch-his-dad?utm_

Vance has commented, as have the agencies involved. I think it takes assumption to take this narrative seriously at this stage. Being predisposed to eat up social media posts which suggest things you're predisposed to believe is something I'd suggest guarding against. Fact check things before getting up in arms.

Now, who is making assumptions? — Questioner

There is no assumption. IT is a direct inference from the fact that you made an absolute claim which was false. I infer, then, you are not partial to saying "Well, Meloni likes him" (or Orban, or whoever) Which she does. Because she's conservative. ITs a logical inference. Not an assumption. Otherwise, i agree. Its a professional courtesy from most leaders.

I have eyes to see, and ears to hear. There is nothing respectable about him. — Questioner

It is factually untrue. Your opinion is something else, and you're entitled to it. That wasn't what you claimed. I don't play games. You were wrong to say what you said. It's not an opinion or something your eyes and ears can tell you, unless you're going to accept that several world leaders in the free world like Trump and respect him. Being honest isn't giving up your position.

Yes, he's been receiving a lot of death threats. — Questioner

Jesus Christ. Just condemn lying about hte president on National TV. There is no evidence he has received death threats as a result of this. That has been tied to his advocacy about Gun Control.

It is really important to not be wrong.

That very much may not be hte case. https://www.ms.now/news/dhs-denies-that-ice-used-a-5-year-old-as-bait-to-catch-his-dad?utm_ — AmadeusD

Lol, and you use the DHS as your fact-checker? They, and the Trump administration, are known liars. This is like using the old line, “If you don’t believe me, just ask me.”

The DHS has been caught telling lies over and over again, making claims repeatedly contradicted by eyewitness accounts, video evidence and local law enforcement. A comprehensive fact-checking document of DHS misinformation was prepared by U.S. Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL), Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Read it here.

But, let’s focus in on the opinion given by Judge Sara L. Ellis as the result of her overseeing a case brought by journalists, protesters, and members of the clergy against DHS (the defendants) for unjustified brutality and arrests in the Chicago area.

You can read longer passages from her opinion at this link, but here are some highlights -

After reviewing all the evidence submitted to the Court and listening to the testimony elicited at the preliminary injunction hearing, during depositions, and in other court proceedings, the Court finds Defendants’ evidence simply not credible. Plaintiffs submitted a mountain of evidence, providing the Court with over eighty declarations, numerous videos and articles, and other evidence. Defendants did not rebut anything that Plaintiffs set forth…

… it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to believe almost anything that Defendants represent….

Defendants, however, cannot simply create their own narrative of what happened, misrepresenting the evidence to justify their actions. Overall, after reviewing all the evidence, the Court finds that Defendants’ widespread misrepresentations call into question everything that Defendants say they are doing in their characterization of what is happening at the Broadview facility or out in the streets of the Chicagoland area during law enforcement activities.

Fact check things before getting up in arms. — AmadeusD

I am quite satisfied that I know the facts. But, if you are listening to Vance, it's not facts you're getting. He has certainly spread misinformation about my country, Canada.

I have to ask - are you really unaware of how dishonest the Trump administration is?

There is no assumption. IT is a direct inference from the fact that you made an absolute claim which was false. I infer, then, you are not partial to saying "Well, Meloni likes him" (or Orban, or whoever) Which she does. Because she's conservative. ITs a logical inference. Not an assumption. Otherwise, i agree. Its a professional courtesy from most leaders. — AmadeusD

Sorry, you made me laugh again. Stickler, are you? I read enough to know that there is no love lost between world leaders and Trump. They flatter him, and handle him, and manipulate him, but they do not respect him. What's there to respect? Maybe some realize they have to play gently with the clawed beast. Maybe some are in it for the same reasons Trump is - only interested in "What's in it for me?" And maybe some, like our PM Mark Carney, see reality as it is, and respond with intelligence, foresight, and resolve.

It's not an opinion or something your eyes and ears can tell you, — AmadeusD

I listen with my ears, and I read with my eyes. I am well-informed.

Jesus Christ. — AmadeusD

Lol! Didn't I read a post of yours in another thread disparaging emotional responses?

Just condemn lying about hte president on National TV. — AmadeusD

The fact is, Trump is suspect, and though Kasky may have spoken out of turn, there are a lot of people who do not find it a stretch to believe that Trump was more involved with Epstein than he claims.

“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

Why did he publicly endorse (for a Senate seat) Roy Moore, who had been accused of sexually molesting minors as young as 14 years old?

Nine women accused Moore of being a perv. Trump’s response?

“Well, he denies it. He denies it. He totally denies it. He says it didn’t happen. And you know, you have to listen to him also.”

Why did he brag about going into the change rooms at Miss Teen USA to see them naked?

“I sort of get away with things like that,” he said.

Why did he brag about "grabbing them by the pussy?"

For more about Trump's sexual misconduct, go to this link.

There is no evidence he has received death threats as a result of this. — AmadeusD

Okay, so you are calling him a liar, but the Trump admin honest. Why?

I have a feeling that bombing Iran is going set in motion a chain of events that ultimately results in AI taking over the planet, and reconfiguring humans into cyborg slaves.

Do you not realize that the entire free world has absolutely no respect for him? — Questioner

Respect has nothing to do with it.

Trump is Washington's clown, and nations who take him seriously make themselves part of his circus; the Europeans first and foremost.

They have about themselves an air of frightened sheep. Trump rattles their cage, and after some loud bleating they pat themselves on the back for a job well done; the bad man could have taken everything, but instead he only got something.

I'm still confused as to what those concessions are exactly. From what I've heard about the framework deal it was essentially just the same arrangement that previously existed which already gave the US full control over Greenland's defense. At the very least when they did their thing in Venezuela they got Maduro. If he's gonna be risking a decades long alliance and causing Europe to seriously reconsider its ties to the US then I was expecting something more tangible to be honest.

You’re right, there were no concessions made. It was all just one giant ego trip for Trump, where people stood up to him and he had to back down. TACO.
What it did result in though, is that the EU leaders cannot now trust him, or the U.S. to act in good faith. This is resulting in a major change of geopolitical strategy in the EU and new alliances being forged, without the U.S.

but instead he only got something.

What did he get? Apart from an embarrassed look on his face and a climb down.

I have a feeling that bombing Iran is going set in motion a chain of events that ultimately results in AI taking over the planet, and reconfiguring humans into cyborg slaves.

You reading Musk’s mind now?

What did he get? Apart from an embarrassed look on his face and a climb down. — Punshhh

Sovereign American military bases that Greenland will have no say over is what is on the table - obviously the preamble to an inevitable full incorporation.

Calling it a "climb down" (like that has any meaning to Trump anyway) is just coping behavior.

Respect has nothing to do with it. — Tzeentch

Well, where I come from, respect means something.

It certainly means something to Trump. A couple of years ago, in an interview, Trump was asked what was the most important issue facing the US. Here is his answer –

“Basically, respect all over the world. We don’t have it anymore. We had tremendous respect three years ago. We don’t have respect anymore. They don’t listen to us. They don’t care about us. They just don’t do what we want them to do and what they have to do, especially since we make life very good for many countries. And we have to get that respect back. And if we don’t, we’ve got some big problems.”

Now, he’s constantly (and erroneously) boasting that the USA is the “most respected country in the world.” It’s one of his rhetorical staples. At a press conference a couple of days ago, he again said, “In the old days, they didn't respect our country … America is respected again on the world stage.”

It’s a ridiculous lie he tells himself to ward off narcissistic collapse.

They have about themselves an air of frightened sheep. Trump rattles their cage, and after some loud bleating they pat themselves on the back for a job well done; the bad man could have taken everything, but instead he only got something. — Tzeentch

Do not mistake Trump for a strategist. He is no strategist, but an internet troll (who happens to be the president of a very powerful country) consumed with his own self-aggrandizement, and having the world tremble under him (which he takes to be respect), and increasing his own personal wealth and power. In his capacity as president, he exploits, not serves. It’s estimated his personal fortune has increased by at least $1.4 billion since he took office.

His interest in Greenland reflects a covetous desire to acquire “real estate.” About Greenland, he has said, “I like ownership.” (As if Greenland would become his – part of the self-enrichment mindset.) At Davos, he said, “Who the hell wants to defend a license agreement or a lease?”

And he wants his name stamped in American history (as he does like to stamp his name on whatever he can) for some “great achievement.” (He imagines he is the new Polk. He’s referred to the 11th president as a “real-estate guy” who got “a lot of land,” and he hung Polk’s portrait in the Oval Office, replacing one of Jefferson.)

The Kremlin understands this aspect of Trump’s psychology, and takes advantage of it. They flatter and manipulate him. He’s highly susceptible – so Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov said, "There are international experts who believe that by resolving the issue of Greenland's accession, Trump will undoubtedly go down in history. And not only in the history of the United States, but also in world history."

But, anyway, take away his audience (he’s running an administration based on spectacle), get him in a room, one-on-one, and he folds, like the little coward he is. Do you believe he got anything more from Greenland than the USA didn’t already have access to? This “concept of a plan” Trump speaks of? But with his outrageous threats and his bluster, Trump got to make himself the centre of attention, as all malignant narcissists crave, but when he’s with people who are far smarter than him, he can never get the upper hand.

No, Trump is not a strategist. Most of his presidency are pages right out of Project 2025, as this Project 2025 tracker reveals. Policy is only the means to his own personal ends. He has no stake in policy per se. He is surrounded by self-serving sycophants – Vought, Hegseth, Miller - who feed his delusion that he’s the one really in charge, while they direct which way policy goes. Trump doesn’t care, as long as his narcissistic needs are met.

I’m shaking in my boots.

Look, I'm sure there's some truth in your post, but this is fundamentally not how I view Trump (or any US president, for that matter). To me, Trump is exclusively a tool Washington uses to manipulate foreign and domestic audiences.

Trump pushes people's buttons and puts them in an emotional state of mind, which makes them predictable and easy to control. That practice has a name: reflexive control.

Reflexive Control (2018)

Reflexive Control: Influencing Strategic Behavior (2023)

To be clear, I don't believe Trump is a strategist - the people he works for are.

Every second you're talking about Trump as a person is a second wasted. The only interesting question is what his behavior and words are supposed to elicit from their audiences, and why.

Trump is exclusively a tool Washington uses — Tzeentch

Trump pushes people's buttons and puts them in an emotional state of mind, which makes them predictable and easy to control. — Tzeentch

Can you explain the apparent contradiction is these two statements.

the people he works for are. — Tzeentch

Who does Trump work for?

Every second you're talking about Trump as a person is a second wasted. — Tzeentch

None of this happens without Trump.

Trump works for the various lobbies and special interest groups that control Washington.

If you want to keep falling for Trump's 'rage baiting' then by all means, have at it. Take the clowns seriously, become part of the circus.

If you want to keep falling for Trump's 'rage baiting' then by all means, — Tzeentch

Observing patterns is not falling for anything. My interest is intellectual

This scene encapsulates Trump’s negotiation skills:



Keep in mind: the original agreement was 25%.

Lots of distraction and hand wringing. In the end, nothing changes and he declares victory— and his supporters cheer what a great dealmaker he is. See the renaming of NAFTA, or dozens of other examples.

Trump’s biggest con yet – “The Board of Peace”

Give Trump $1 billion and you get zero say in any decisions.

He is the chairman for life, with sole veto power, and controls all the funds.

No oversight, no accountability.

I guess he is looking for investors for Kushner’s development project

The countries that have so far signed on all have repressive regimes (I guess they feel at home with Trump) –

Argentina
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Belarus
Egypt
Hungary
Indonesia
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Morocco
Pakistan
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Vietnam

Only one South American country and two African countries. That’s a poor turnout, it looks as though South America and Africa favour China in the shakedown.

Only one South American country and two African countries. That’s a poor turnout, it looks as though South America and Africa favour China in the shakedown. — Punshhh

Well, Putin and Netanyahu can't show up to join Trump's Peace Board because they would get arrested for war crimes. (The irony is over the top)

I'm Canadian, and I have to say, I am optimistic about the new ties being forged between our country and China. I expect they will be more stable than the ties with the US. And markets love stability.