• Jack Cummins
    917

    If you believe that the chair and objects around you are animated this might mean that you are a panpsychist. I do not believe that objects around me are animated as such but I do feel that there are energy connections, but they may proceed from us, as conscious beings. Here, I am talking about the meaningful connections, or synchronicities, which involve objects. I am talking about books or CDs which sometimes almost fall off the shelves meaningfully at critical times.
  • Athena
    1.1k
    Life is full of coincidences that can make us wonder.

    I believe I have entered spaces and felt an energy. This is most likely for me if the space was used for praying or seances or other spiritual things are done.

    Looking for information I found this..

    Birds, it turns out, are emissaries of the dead. According to Engler, "They will do something unusual to get your attention." — Lizzy Acker

    A few years ago when a friend died, a bird did not move when I walked past. That concerned me so I bent down to pick up the bird. I would have taken it to a vet if it had a problem. Finally, almost touched the bird before flew away. I thought that was odd and went on my way. I went into my apartment building and got on the elevator. The door closed and the lights flashed and the elevator would not move. I was afraid of being trapped in the elevator and just before I tried to get out, everything returned to normal. In many years of using that elevator that never happened before or since.

    Another time that stands out for me is a friend lost a husband, and the words red and bucket came to my mind. At the same time, I thought I had received a message for her but I couldn't believe that until she confirmed the words red and bucket have meaning. I was compelled to message her those words and she asked me why I did that. I told her I didn't know why I was compelled to write those words and was hoping she would tell the meaning. As it turned out there was a red bucket used as a wastebasket in her husband's bedroom.

    Another time when a woman who had just lost her children in a house fire got in my car, and I was compelled to say something that came from a Ninja Turtle show, and she told me her son said that often.

    I could go on. It seems like I have gotten messages from the other side but I could be wrong? However, a message from my dead mother warning me of a difficult time that would come out okay, proved extremely helpful to me.

    And on this subject, there are people who can hold something that belongs to another person and come to know things about this person. I have to add that, because you mentioned objects can hold energy that is a form of information.
  • 180 Proof
    2.2k
    Life is full of coincidences that can make us wonder.Athena
    Sure ... :point:

    "After death"?180 Proof
    :roll:
  • Athena
    1.1k
    I have a friend who lives his life as he does because of a couple of times of dying. He died in medical settings and the medical team was able to get his heart pumping again, not uncommon today. He is convinced of the importance of living a good life because our experience after death depends on where our head is at when we die. Death being sort of like being stuck in time. His stories of death are like others. There is at least one book on this subject.

    There were two TV shows done by two different men who claim they communicate with the dead. I think they are very convincing that do in fact communicate with the dead, and that death is not the end. Here is a Youtube of John Edwards who communicates with the dead, and in this video about 1/3 through he speaks of the pandemic.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e45ZGABCa0k
  • 180 Proof
    2.2k
    He is convinced of the importance of living a good life because our experience after death depends on where our head is at when we die. Death being sort of like being stuck in time.Athena
    While this 'prospect' appeals to me (à la What Dreams May Come – 1998 film, not the book), "experience after death" and "stuck in time" make no sense, which leaves me convinced that life — a complex, ecology-situated, informational process aka "living" — simply ceases when we die, no matter how we die or have lived, and, thereby, is even more reason for each of us to live as good a life we as can, every day, every hour ... for as long as we're able to, for living's own sake. :fire:
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    I think that you make a good point. What happens after death is a mystery, even though some people think that they have definite answers. Whatever, this life is important and living it well, and perhaps this must be upheld, and I say this from the perspective of having agonised over the question of life after death endlessly. I wish that I knew the answer to the question of life after death but I am afraid that I do not know, and, for the present time, just try to accept this lack of knowledge.
  • charles ferraro
    177


    It seems to me that the question of an afterlife is a curious one because, on the one hand, if I do continue to live after I die, then by definition I will know it, whereas, on the other hand, if I do not continue to live after I die, then by definition I will not know it. So, essentially, I can only know the former, but not the latter, state-of-affairs, after I die. All the rest, to me, is pure speculation.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    Yes, if we do not exist beyond death we will not know it, but if we do exist we will know. This spells out the extent of possibilities, except borderline states of consciousness, and future rebirth.

    Perhaps the people who do not think about this matter at all are better off, and perhaps it would have been better if this thread had not been created.However, I am sure that some may worry about this alone, so, if nothing else, the thread may be an outlet for anxiety over this problem, which I see as possibly the hardest philosophy questions of all.
  • Athena
    1.1k
    It seems to me that the question of an afterlife is a curious one because, on the one hand, if I do continue to live after I die, then by definition I will know it, whereas, on the other hand, if I do not continue to live after I die, then by definition I will not know it. So, essentially, I can only know the former, but not the latter, state-of-affairs, after I die.charles ferraro

    Someone who communicates with those who have crossed over said they do not know they are dead. When we are dreaming we do not know we are asleep. It is really great when we have a bad dream and wake up realizing it was only a dream.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    The question is what is the truest state of being 'awake'?
  • Athena
    1.1k
    The question is what is the truest state of being 'awake'?Jack Cummins

    I don't think there is such a thing but I am not sure of anything. I think we have different awarenesses but one would not be truer than another? And the experience we think we are having may not be true at all. Oh dear, how do we know the experience we are having is true? We may think we are loved and discover we are not loved, or think we are hated and we are not hated. The whole racist thing is people thinking something is true and there may be little truth to what one thinks. A con person is good at making us believe something that is not true or our inability to trust others could be internal. How do we know? When we are asleep we think the dream is true and when cross over who knows what that is like?

    I have read what makes life on earth different is we can process the things we think about faster in 3-dimensional reality.
  • charles ferraro
    177


    Perhaps, in this world or in the next, I am existing in, or as, someone else's dream; and when that someone else awakens, I cease to be. To put a different spin on Descartes' famous saying: When and while It is dreaming, I exist.
  • Bitter Crank
    9k
    At the moment of brain death our consciousness exits stage left and is never again seem on the stage. That's why death is a tragic event: there's nothing after death. Which is why many people heartily believe in a happy heaven afterlife. If you want to make death much worse, you can teach children that there is a ghastly hell, and they will probably spend eternity there because their behavior and thoughts are BAD.

    For me, the finality of death adds to the goodness of life. Time goes by so fast when you are alive.

    Remember: It's is a once-around world, a once around life. And when you're out of Schlitz, you're out of beer. In Heaven there is no beer, which is why we drink it here.

    The following are the philosophical views of the Joseph Schlitz Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

  • 180 Proof
    2.2k
    "Life after death?" Too good to be true, that's reason enough to believe it ain't. Beware of wishful / magical / conspiracy thinking ...

    :death: :flower:
  • bert1
    610
    At the moment of brain death our consciousness exits stage left and is never again seem on the stage. That's why death is a tragic event: there's nothing after death. Which is why many people heartily believe in a happy heaven afterlife. If you want to make death much worse, you can teach children that there is a ghastly hell, and they will probably spend eternity there because their behavior and thoughts are BAD.

    For me, the finality of death adds to the goodness of life. Time goes by so fast when you are alive.

    Remember: It's is a once-around world, a once around life. And when you're out of Schlitz, you're out of beer. In Heaven there is no beer, which is why we drink it here.
    Bitter Crank

    On a philosophy forum you are not entitled to your opinion, even if it happens to be true.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    You said in response to Bitter Crank that people are not entitled to opinion on a philosophy forum. On the particular question of life after death I am not sure that people can give more than opinion.Of course, the introduction of reason can be important but in thinking about life after death has its limitations because we are talking about the unknown.

    I am also aware that Sam26 has restarted his thread from a year ago on the subject of evidence of consciousness after death if anyone is interested. It is 21 pages long, although I have to admit that I have not read it all, but others might wish to.
  • bert1
    610
    I guess there's no sharp line between knowledge and opinion, but BC's post contained no argument or rationale whatever. He does this quite a lot. I should take a look at the posting guidelines before I comment next time.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    Please don't think that I was actually criticising you. I have been reflecting how the whole question of what is an opinion in philosophy. Perhaps arguments are only opinions constructed on the basis of reason, especially on topics such as this one, and the whole existence of God.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    The whole issue of magical thinking is an interesting one. I came across it on a short cognitive behavioral therapy course. Most people use magical thinking a lot and it requires work to overcome. In the first place, I even used magical thinking, wishing against the belief in life after death because my Catholic belief system left me worried about hell. So, I would say that the idea of life after death is not always too good to be true.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    In your post you speak of life being fast because it is in 3D. I would just suggest that life has 4, 5 and perhaps many more. I am inclined to think that if consciousness exists beyond death, may be in a different dimension to the one we are accustomed to in daily life.
  • Athena
    1.1k
    Hum, did Descartes learn of Hinduism? I think a few of the past philosophers did. Our existence ending when the dreamer awakes is Hindu. Then the dreamer goes back to sleep what we know as life begins all over again.
  • Athena
    1.1k
    In your post you speak of life being fast because it is in 3D. I would just suggest that life has 4, 5 and perhaps many more. I am inclined to think that if consciousness exists beyond death, may be in a different dimension to the one we are accustomed to in daily life.Jack Cummins

    Jack, I really do not know what I am talking about. We need someone who understands math theories.
    but I think.....Three dimensions are required for the manifestation of matter. We process our concerns faster in a three-dimensional reality because there are boundaries. Without boundaries there is timelessness. That is there is no space-time. You can not run without the resistance of the ground. You can not go forward or backward, you just are.
  • Athena
    1.1k
    That is indeed one of the popular beliefs but it is not supported by my experience. :lol: :heart:

    I like the Hindu notion of reincarnation better and most of my life has been preparing for the next one. Now maybe my spirit ends here, but it was been fun preparing for the next life.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    I am really not trying to be confusing talking about more than three dimensions. I have actually been engaging with a member of the forum, Possibility, about dimensions in relation to art. The fourth dimension probably includes aspects of time, such as memories.

    However, while some people are starting to think in more than three dimensions, I don't think that it is essential to do so as it is probably not a mainstream view. I remember talking about the 5D reality to one of my managers at work and I think that she thought that I was crazy.
  • Athena
    1.1k
    The book A Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe explains sacred math. The numbers 1 thru 10 having powers or forces that we can see in nature. This way if thinking is different from our thinking and more like The Mayan Factor consciousness of amination. :lol: I laugh because I am sooo frustrated with trying to find the best terms to use and the definitions of words have changed so much the words are useless in conveying the meaning I am wanting to convey. Amination comes up as moving pictures not the spirits of the tree and river.

    Language has so much to do with our understanding. Rome could not accept the trinity of God because it did not have a word for that concept and as a result Christians who thought God was a trinity father/son/holy ghost, and those who thought Jesus is the son of God, were killing each other! The Greeks had no problem with a god being a trinity and appearing in human form. Eventual Rome adopted the new terminology and they were able to get past the fighting.

    This directly relates to this discussion. How do we understand the life force? Do we see what numbers have to do with knowledge of life forces? What do we know of energy and quantum physics?

    There's the fact that two separated particles can interact instantaneously, a phenomenon called quantum entanglement. ... And there's another phenomenon called quantum superposition. This principle of quantum mechanics suggests that particles can exist in two separate locations at once.Dec 28, 2015

    The Same Atoms Exist in Two Places Nearly 2 Feet Apart ...
    — JAY BENNETT

    I :heart: Bitter Crank's post but maybe he would not be so sure there is no life after death if he thought all living matter has a spirit or if he saw reality as quantum physics explains it. Our language limits our notion of what we can believe is possible and if we do not have knowledge of math as more than numbers, we are blind to so much.
  • charles ferraro
    177


    No, Descartes was not aware of Hinduism. European thinkers only began to translate Sanskrit works during the late 18th and early19th century. As far as I can tell, Goethe and Schopenhauer were the first notable European intellectuals to praise works in Sanskrit. Schopenhauer highly praised Hindu and Buddhist thinking and even incorporated several of their philosophical insights into his own philosophy.

    What disturbs me most about the "When and while It is dreaming, I exist" pun on Descartes' "When and while I am thinking, I exist" is how dependent, fragile, ephemeral, and insignificant it portrays human existence to be. Given the dream scenario, human existence lacks the dignity even of being a clear-sighted, conscious, deliberate and desirable creation of the divinity. Instead, human existence appears to be nothing more than a divine slumberer's groggy after-thought.

    Given this scenario, should the sage seek to keep the divinity asleep or awake?
  • avalon
    17
    Consciousness is related directly to life. Death therefore presents us with the lack of consciousness. I think of it as an endless dreamless sleep of sorts.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    At face value, what you say appears true and you may be right. On the other hand, perhaps the matter is not as straightforward as we often think. We could ask what is consciousness, exactly?
  • avalon
    17

    I agree. Matter may not be as straightforward as we think. With that said, there is no evidence of any kind that consciousness (specifically the consciousness of the person deceased) continues in any form.

    I'd like to add that I've noticed a trend in various discussions regarding consciousness to conflate the consciousness of the individual with consciousness as a concept or even "force" of nature. When I say that consciousness ceases to exist, I am referring to the consciousness an individual possesses. It matters not for the individual if the "force" of consciousness continues to exist in some abstract way. The person will cease to experience life.
  • Jack Cummins
    917

    Yes, the more abstract it becomes the more the arguments begin to get meaningless, although the idea of some processes after death, prior to a rebirth in another bodily form is another possibility. If this was the case I would think that it is likely that humans are reborn as human beings. The theosophical writers argued in this direction.
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