• david plumb
    36
    Every generation believes it has awakened itself to what is really going on and attempts to change the status quo. Is woke culture any different?
  • ChatteringMonkey
    651


    No probably not.

    When you are young you have a lot of energy, and little experience of how the world works. Adding to that you are, just by virtue of not having had a lot of time to build up a something in the world, usually not in a situation where you stand to lose much... and so among the youth the conditions are right for developing a culture that wants to change things.
  • NOS4A2
    3.9k


    There is a recent book called Cynical Theories that goes into good enough detail where the current “wokism”, and it’s illiberal spread, comes from.

    But I think the current wokism is unique insofar as it is a ideology of the privileged. I say this because it was formed in the halls of Ivy League America and spread throughout expensive universities and corporate boardrooms before being laundered to the public. It is an illiberal movement focussing on identitarian activism and power struggles.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    716
    Maybe it's new in its current form, but the entire idea of seeing the world in black and white - oppressed vs. oppressor, good vs. evil, is quite ancient. Identity politics and taking one's racial/ethnic/class identity to be a core component of oneself is again nothing new. I always thought Nietzsche totally did away with the supposed connection between "oppressed" and "good" but it hasn't reached the woke crowd yet. I actually have less of a problem with identity politics than the strong moral, manichaean implications that wokeism has attached to it.
  • Jack Cummins
    198

    I think the whole social calls for equality are a bit different from previous ones because the people are more aware than previous generations in the first place. The calls for improvements are a refinement and greater attention to details.

    The Black Lives debate comes at a critical time with Africans being more susceptible to Covid_19. Even the politicians have never dared to suggest that black people should self-isolate because it would be seen as clear racism while in former times this could have happened. This is only a speculation.

    On the gender front people are becoming more aware of the entire spectrum. There have been steps backwards in easier gender recognition for transgender people but there is more open discussion at least. The areas of capacity to consent for young people for transgender adolescents is being raised. Also, transgender is being seen in more detail with the plight of intersex people and gender identities beyond the binary becoming more open for discussion in the media than previously.

    Of course there is still prejudice and discrimination against many minorities people but at least in this time of pandemic the competitive values and needs of various sectors of the population is being debated, the vulnerable and the less vulnerable, who through poverty could become the new vulnerable.

    So, what I am saying is that the current areas of awakening is about further clarification of rights for equality based on the older movements, but hopefully it is a progression.
  • Sir2u
    2.3k
    When you are young you have a lot of energy, and little experience of how the world works. Adding to that you are, just by virtue of not having had a lot of time to build up a something in the world, usually not in a situation where you stand to lose much... and so among the youth the conditions are right for developing a culture that wants to change things.ChatteringMonkey

    Have you noticed how old the youths are today? You see "kids" of 30 acting they just got let out of school.
    A lot of them still live with mom and dad even.
  • Gus Lamarch
    490
    You see "kids" of 30 acting they just got let out of school.
    A lot of them still live with mom and dad even.
    Sir2u

    The heirs of our world! :rofl:
  • Sir2u
    2.3k
    The heirs of our world! :rofl:Gus Lamarch

    And may the gods(all of them) have mercy on us all. :cry:
  • david plumb
    36


    "On the gender front people are becoming more aware of the entire spectrum. There have been steps backwards in easier gender recognition for transgender people but there is more open discussion at least. The areas of capacity to consent for young people for transgender adolescents is being raised. Also, transgender is being seen in more detail with the plight of intersex people and gender identities beyond the binary becoming more open for discussion in the media than previously."

    God made Adam and Eve. You are a man or a woman for obvious reasons. Culture seems to be more about choice and the lessons to be learnt from this should bring us back to the basics again at some point. In the meantime the more we distance ourselves from God's work the easier it will be to control the masses. The Frankfurt School has much to answer.
  • Jack Cummins
    198

    Your comment about gender seems really fundamentalist in saying God created humans as Adam and Eve, a primary binary construction. How about a gender continuum instead?

    I do not necessarily believe in God in the first place, but would suggest that the whole argument about God has done a lot of harm to people who have been trying to construct gender identity in a meaningful way.

    Of course, not all intersex and transgender people do wish to reject the binary construction of gender. They may wish to become Adam or Eve, while others may embrace both Adam and Eve together within themselves.
  • david plumb
    36


    "Your comment about gender seems really fundamentalist in saying God created humans as Adam and Eve, a primary binary construction. How about a gender continuum instead?

    I do not necessarily believe in God in the first place, but would suggest that the whole argument about God has done a lot of harm to people who have been trying to construct gender identity in a meaningful way.

    Of course, not all intersex and transgender people do wish to reject the binary construction of gender. They may wish to become Adam or Eve, while others may embrace both Adam and Eve together within themselves."

    "They" can identify, change, manipulate their gender but the reality is that we are either man or woman. Moving away from the main construct of who we really are isn't helpful in the long term. Choice can be a dangerous thing especially when you challenge the whole basis of life.
  • Jack Cummins
    198

    I think you replied to the wrong person because it was me who wrote the comment.

    It is fine if you wish to hold onto conventional categories of man and woman. But not everybody wishes to be limited by these concepts to describe their identity. Who has the right to define our identity, our body and minds?
  • david plumb
    36
    I think you replied to the wrong person because it was me who wrote the comment.

    "It is fine if you wish to hold onto conventional categories of man and woman. But not everybody wishes to be limited by these concepts to describe their identity. Who has the right to define our identity, our body and minds?"

    There are some things in life that are the building blocks that represent real meaning. My point is that it is futile to try to change such foundations as they are what they are and rewording them means nothing other than to the changers. Wondering what comes next? Maybe we need another catastrophe so we all concentrated on the true meaning of life.
  • Jack Cummins
    198

    I am not wishing to get rid of building blocks but I just think we need to look deeper and the idea of a binary has not been inclusive enough.

    I think the last thing we need is another catastrophe. The events of this year have not brought us nearer to the meaning of life and it is more likely that a further catastrophe would spiral many into further despair.

    I also wonder what catastrophe do you wish for??
  • Jack Cummins
    198

    I am not saying that I do not understand at all what you mean when you say that you wonder what is coming next. I think that we are at an atrocious point in history. I am starting to call it the post-apocalyptic age.

    I also realise that you are not saying that you want a catastrophe, but think it is needed for rediscovering meaning.

    But I am not sure that it is that simple. The language we have needs to be expanded to discover ways of reinventing the future in an expansive way, incorporating insights from traditional religious perspectives to the postmodern deconstruction of language. This applies to gender, but also to many aspects of culture.

    The philosopher needs to be a visionary, not a romantic dreamer, but a shamanic traveller, finding radical healing solutions.
  • david plumb
    36


    " The philosopher needs to be a visionary, not a romantic dreamer, not a shamanic traveller, finding radical healing solutions".

    The philosopher needs to be nothing. What he does is reach the truth..By stating what you have stated you have immediately created a bias in this search for the truth. Anyone can come up with their version of the truth. An open mind is much harder than a closed mind for obvious reasons.
  • Jack Cummins
    198
    Surely, all versions of the truth are biased. It is not possible to be without biases. I will admit my own: art, punk, metal and alternative music, fantasy and steampunk, transgender, binary and intersex issues. These are some of the things that are important to me, so I am being open about my interests.

    Often, the people who claim to have the truth and be free of bias are the most biased. They are not being honest with themselves. This is frequently done by projecting onto others, especially gay people and the spectrum of people who are 'different'.

    Also, I don't think anyone has a completely open or closed mind. Both extremes would be a recipe for disaster. With a completely open mind a person could just be duped into believing anything and with a closed mind one would stagnate. So, even though I say I keep an open mind that is not strictly true because I have ideas which I adhere to rather than constantly changing them.
  • david plumb
    36


    " I am being open about my interests."

    Are you saying open, Jack, in the sense that you are not hiding anything? Or open from the sense of being open minded? Very different meanings here
  • Jack Cummins
    198
    I would say that a mixture of both. I am open about my interests in most situations, but have to be reserved if I am working. Also, I tone things down a bit when I am with my mum, who is elderly and a strict Catholic. Some of my own rebelliousness comes from my struggling with Catholicism which I talked about in my thread about worrying about the unpardonable sin as a teenager. But I am a bit eccentric in my pursuit of the edges of the arts and literature.

    As far as being open minded, I probably do have a sound understanding of human values from my own background as being a Catholic. I began questioning this in my twenties. I am not a complete atheist but I don't think one religion has a completely monopoly on truth. I certainly try to hold onto the spirit of compassion from Christianity.But I like dialogue with diverse opinions because I see life as an ongoing search and exploration.

    You have not said what your own perspective is, because in the first place you began the thread with woke culture. I got annoyed that you were a bit preachy but even so, I prefer that to all the antinatalist threads.

    I created a new thread about ethics last night based on my reading of your message about needing to find truth and meaning in life. The reason I did this was because I thought that a lot of people would not join in to a discussion about woke culture, but so far no one has responded to what I wrote.
  • Maw
    2.2k
    woke culture is not real
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