• telex
    92
    You could say that, unquestionably, racism is one of the hottest issues of 2020.

    Let's dissect it philosophically, if we can :)

    Let's start with the most basic and move outwards. If I miss anything, please post it in the comments below.

    1) Racism is bad, because it hurts blacks and minorities - physically and emotionally. (if you believe white people can be included, please say your response. I will probably only direct these points at blacks and minorities).

    2) Racism places blacks and minorities in worse off social, educational, and economic situations.

    3) Racism creates a hostile, dangerous, and drug ridden environment.

    4) Racism creates a poor environment for young girls, leading to domestic violence and prostitution.

    5) Racism bars blacks and minorities from entering well-off areas like better jobs, healthcare, education, and housing.

    6) Racism teaches whites to be socially degenerate. It encourages whites to become violent, hateful, mistrustful, leading to an overall social decline in society.

    7) Racism prevents intelligent blacks and minorities from contributing to the arts, sciences, technology, literary, and other fields.

    8) Racism suggests that blacks, who make up only 13% of the population, are responsible for a lot of problems in the United States, including crime, violence, and social degeneracy.

    9) Racism teaches us that one race is superior to another, simply because that race has certain qualities not found in another race. For example, the quality of lighter skin.

    10) Racism causes cultural wars, leading to some kind of a civil war.

    ---------------------------------------

    So how do we approach racism? For what reasons should we stop being racist?

    I guess one could say that the reason we should stop being racist is for some or all of the reasons above. In general, racism hurts a lot of people. But there is a problem here. We don't actually know that the external world exists. So when someone says the N word, a person could say that they are dreaming and has uttered the N word in his dream. So why should they stop uttering the N word, if they have no real reason to believe they are hurting anyone.

    For this reason, I believe only a solipsism-tian argument will suffice against racism.

    But what would an extreme solipsism-ist say? Perhaps they would say that they don't believe they are hurting anyone by being racist. However, even if I am not hurting anyone by being racist, I should still not be a racist because it will help me develop good moral qualities or a better mind. In other words, I only know that my mind exists, therefore, I should perfect it. Being racist would mean a less perfect mind. Therefore, I should be a non-racist to achieve a more perfect mind. (for example, I wouldn't hurt any other living creature, like a parrot, just because it possessed different physical and mental qualities)

    What do you guys/gals think of this argument? Do we actually "truly" know that we are hurting anyone in the external world by being racist? Even if the external world hurt us back, like a black guy punching you in the face for calling him the N word, we still can't be sure if it's just an illusion. Albeit, it would still hurt.

    Perhaps avoiding pain is another good argument for not being racist. Like a black guy punching you in the face or maybe even a more serious injury.

    I guess the other argument is: even if the world is just an illusion, that doesn't mean I'd jump from a skyscraper, because based on my previous sensory experience, I know that would hurt.

    However, here we can resort to Hume-ean doubt, that the past gives no indication of the future. So technically, again, one could say that uttering the N word in front of a black guy does not necessarily mean that I would experience pain. Nonetheless, even a solipsism-ist would experience the paradox of avoiding extreme pain in the external world. However, in an absolute abstract sense that disregards our extreme fear of pain, the Hume-ean argument would hold, i think.

    For these reasons, I think we are left solely with a solipsism-tian argument for not being racist.

    Comments? Thoughts?

    I understand that this is a hot issue, so there may be a lot of negativity about my thread, which is fine.
  • tim wood
    5.4k
    I believe only a solipsism-tian argument will suffice against racism.telex

    I think you're confusing solipsism with something - I don't know what - else. Real solipsism wouldn't be writing to this or any forum.
  • praxis
    2.7k
    I understand that this is a hot issue, so there maybe a lot of negativity about my thread, which is fine.telex

    Are you admitting that the topic is designed to troll?
  • telex
    92


    That's a good point, but I'm considering this from a solipsism perspective.
  • telex
    92


    No, I'm not trying to troll.
  • praxis
    2.7k
    No, I'm not trying to troll.telex

    You knowingly designed an OP that you believed may produce "a lot of negativity." Why would you do that if not to troll?
  • telex
    92


    This is not designed to troll. It's an application of Cartesian and Solipsism-tian doubt to the issue of racism. (and Hume-ean doubt)
  • praxis
    2.7k


    If you say so. In any case, there’s no reason that couldn’t be done in a way that would not produce “a lot of negativity,” as you say. But you’ve deliberately chosen to present it in a way that you believe will produce a lot of negativity. There is only one explanation for why you would do this, and the fact that you have no other explanation further supports the regrettable conclusion.
  • telex
    92


    I did not design this discussion to troll.
  • praxis
    2.7k


    Perhaps it’s your habit then. Will you admit that much?
  • telex
    92


    I appreciate you replying to my thread, but all I can say to your comment is I did not design this to troll.
  • DingoJones
    2k


    Your the one trolling this thread you puttz.
    Why dont you ask him how many times he beats his wife a day while youre at it.
    You are poison to discourse.
  • telex
    92


    That's fine DingoJones. I still appreciate Praxis reply.
  • praxis
    2.7k


    I notice you haven’t addressed the topic whatsoever. Too tired after beating your wife, perhaps?
  • telex
    92


    I'm sure no one here beats their wife. There's no reason to start fighting like this.
  • praxis
    2.7k


    Okay then, we’ll chalk it up to habit. That established, there’s no reason for you not to edit the OP in order to make it less likely to produce a lot of negativity and more likely to produce whatever it is that you intended it to produce.
  • telex
    92


    I appreciate your response praxis, but again the only thing I will say to this is I did not design this to troll.
  • praxis
    2.7k
    I'm sure no one here beats their wife.telex

    How do you know? Dingo brought it up, maybe he’s projecting.
  • praxis
    2.7k
    I appreciate your response praxis, but again the only thing I will say to this is I did not design this to troll.telex

    You appear to be saying that you’re unwilling to edit the OP in order to be less negativity producing.
  • telex
    92


    At this time, I will not be editing the OP. Again, the only thing I will say is I did not design this to troll. And I don't believe we should suspect Dingo of any kind of domestic abuse :)
  • Bitter Crank
    8.8k
    1) "Racism is bad" the old troll who lives under the bridge said.

    So rumor has it.

    Sticks and stones can break their bones but words can not harm them.

    2) Racism places blacks and minorities in worse off social, educational, and economic situations.

    Yes, and its a classic chicken and egg problem.

    3) Racism creates a hostile, dangerous, and drug ridden environment.

    No, it's drug dealers enforcing drug deals with guns and pimps preying on poor women that does all that.

    4) Racism creates a poor environment for young girls, leading to domestic violence and prostitution.

    We do not see the connection. Perhaps you were thinking of some other 'ism'?

    5) Racism bars blacks and minorities from entering well-off areas like better housing.

    As well it should. There are reasons for those guarded gates. The better to keep poor minorities out.

    6) Racism teaches whites to be socially degenerate. It encourages whites to become violent, hateful, mistrustful, leading to an overall social decline in society.

    This is nonsense. We Supreme Whites don't need to be racist, violent, hateful, mistrustful, or anything of the kind. Since we are the superiors at the top by natural right, we can afford to be magnanimously tolerant of the billions of riffraff we must endure. Plus, we regularly offer them the generous hand of reasonably priced goods and services so that they may improve themselves, be more like us, and less like themselves. If they don't avail themselves of the opportunity, whose fault is that?

    7) Racism prevents intelligent blacks and minorities from contributing to the arts, sciences, technology, literary, and other fields.

    Humbug. I just read that "Kanye West Declares Himself ‘New Moses,’ Says He Won’t Release New Music Till Freed From Universal and Sony/ATV Deals". New Moses, he says. Well, we all know Moses was barred from entering the Promised Land. Moses didn't get on the ballot in Wisconsin, either. He didn't get his application in on time. So... tough. Why would anybody vote for him? I knew President Obama and Kanye West is no Obama!!!

    8) Racism suggests that blacks, who make up only 13% of the population, are responsible for a lot of problems in the United States, including crime, violence, and social degeneracy.

    Suggests? how about PROCLAIMS.

    9) Racism teaches us that one race is superior to another, simply because that race has certain qualities not found in another race.

    And there you should rest your case.

    10) Racism causes cultural wars, leading to some kind of a civil war.

    #9 was your last good point. Just strike #10.

    ---------------------------------------

    So how do we approach racism? For what reasons should we stop being racist?
    telex

    We should certainly stop being racist for the wrong reasons.
  • telex
    92


    Thank you for your response Bitter Crank, but how would you consider Cartesian, Solipsism-tian, and Hume-ean ideas applied to this? Or let me add this, you believe that applying these principles will cause us to be not-racist for the wrong reasons. But aren't these principles the bedrock of philosophy and we are on a philosophical forum?
  • Bitter Crank
    8.8k
    True, but I no longer enter into discussions of racism with serious intent. Of course racism is a problem, but what most people have to say are shallow knee-jerk clichés.
  • telex
    92


    Ok, thanks for your comments :) ... good or bad
  • Valentinus
    815

    u
    We don't actually know that the external world exists. So when someone says the N word, a person could say that they are dreaming and has uttered the N word in his dream. So why should they stop uttering the N word, if they have no real reason to believe they are hurting anyone.telex

    So, I am being asked to object to an objection to using certain language while also doubting the reality of what I perceive?

    If the latter is the case, the former is meaningless.
  • telex
    92


    Perhaps a solipsism-ist in this sense is still bound to their sense organs from which sense data can be gathered, like the use of a certain language. Perhaps it's an example that can be used, while itself may be meaningless, but nonetheless, can be used to express a point.
  • Valentinus
    815
    Your original comments are directed at a "real" world. I don't see how your latest reply relates to your narrative.
  • telex
    92


    That is the "sense data" we gathered from what we "perceive" to be a "real world." So, perhaps it's an example that can be used, while itself may be meaningless, but nonetheless, can be used to express a point
  • Valentinus
    815
    I was referring to the examples of racism that you provided. They all are expressed from the point of view of why the "white" thing should be criticized or not.
    If you want to argue about matters on those terms, you should own them.
  • telex
    92


    Those matters cannot be owned, because as Descartes pointed out, an Evil Genius can deceive us about any or all of our sensory experience. However, even though this data may be meaningless, it can, nonetheless, be used to illustrate a point.
  • Valentinus
    815
    Descartes was saying the opposite of your point of view. Why would any agent bother making us stupid on purpose? We are pretty stupid out of the box.

    You are not owning the presumptions of your list of why people are racists. This Cartesian stuff is just a sideshow to your own deficits.
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