• Trestone

    Consciousness/ is considered puzzling.

    For example our subjective feeling and perception e.g. of pain and colors (Qualia).

    First I want to deal with other special features (where a new logic, layer logic might help us):

    1) There is hardly anything more present and conscious than our subjective perceptions - how does this work?

    2) Nevertheless, we cannot perceive each other at all.
    How and why are they so subjective?

    3) Intersubjectively we only perceive bodies (via our sensory organs).
    Why the path through the senses?

    4) There seems to be a coupling between our mind and our body.

    5) Similar to the body, the subjective mind appears to be spatially isolated.

    Physical bodies can mostly interact with physical bodies in principle,
    that means they are perceptible to one another.

    It seems to be different with minds:
    We just seem to perceive our own mind
    all others are not immediately perceptible to us,
    and bodies don't react directly to other minds,
    both make some doubt about the existence of minds.

    The layer logic offers an explanation:
    If the bodies belong to a finite layer k and the minds to the layer infinity,
    then the following layer rules apply:

    Layers are blind to themselves and upwards,
    i.e. Properties in a stage can only be properties
    at a lower layer.

    This would explain the blindness of the minds to each other.

    That bodies from the same layer k can interact with each other
    requires an additional rule from the layer logic perspective:
    If two objects from the same layer k meet,
    they can interact if afterwards all objects go to layer k + 1.

    Since layer k is practically resolved here, the flow of information can be seen in such a way
    that information from layer k changes to layer k + 1, so that the hierarchical principle of layer logic,
    which allows freedom from contradictions, is preserved.
    Also for the conscious perception of your own mind in the infinity layer
    a special rule is necessary:
    If the mind is locked "inward" and "outward" is not directly effective,
    he can perceive himself without giving contradictory information to the outside.

    The mind-body coupling (with us humans probably via the nervous system)
    connects layer infinity with layer k.

    The mind can probably directly take up information from layer k,
    without changing them.

    Conversely, to give information from the mind to the body
    a complex model is required without violating layer hierarchies:

    When there is a quantum effect in the nervous system and it
    e.g. there are three possible target quanta that could be chosen physically at random,
    then the mind can specifically change that choice,
    but only choose such options
    that would have been physically possible.

    So the mind from level Infinite can intervene in levels k and k + 1,
    without risking contradictions from his informational advantage from level infinity,
    because what the body does at its instigation
    he could have done "naturally" without a mind (accidentally).

    A "free" mind without a body would have two problems:

    1. He could not "experience" anything, since the Infinite layer cannot perceive himself
    without self-isolation, so he would have no feelings / perceptions - he would be "deaf".

    2. It could not do anything, would be "silent", because it could neither act at infinity layer nor at layer k.

    Elsewhere, I speculated that gravitation is the interaction of the mind.
    So he could influence other minds (and the bodies attached to them) gravitationally by space-time curvature - so he would be "heavy".

    Dark matter could be such "free or pure minds".

    Since gravity can work for all physical objects,
    I assume that these are linked to mind objects.

    I don't know how a consciousness arises from such pre-conscious mind objects.

    In the case of reproduction, this could also be done via the parents' spirits,
    but the first consciousness must have come from somewhere.

    It is interesting that, according to my theory, consciousness has a similar distribution
    needed inside and outside like the living cell.

    I approached the whole thing from the (unpopular) dualistic perspective,
    but that's how I experience my mind and body.

    The layer logic is a bit farther there,
    but it helps with a surprising number of questions
    and has few advocates besides me ...

    Link to layer logic:


    In German (with more details):

    Does this help to understand "mind" - and what more is to be added?

  • Eremit
    Are the layers of body and mind the only one or is there something else? What do you think? And why would reality be layered?
  • Trestone
    Hello Eremit,

    I have only thought of one layer for the body and one for the mind.
    The layer of the body is finite and increasing with every interaction (except gravity).
    In layer theory there can be different properties in different layers -
    and as mind and body are different I tried layer logic for an explanation.

  • Trestone
    Hello unenlightened,

    the book of Doris Lessing looks interesting,
    it reminds me partly on The_Three-Body_Problem of Liu Cixin.

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