• Harry Hindu
    3.3k
    Which metaphysical and epistemological problems need to be solved prior to understanding, or being able to use, logic? Tell me how you answer that question without using logic.Harry Hindu

    Which logical axioms should we accept?83nt0n
    All of them or any of them, when applicable. To my knowledge, none of them contradict any other one, except maybe dialetheism, but I am beginning to think that that is just psuedo-logic (see my other thread).

    I think that depends on what you mean by some element of truth. Newtonian mechanics is wrong but useful.83nt0n
    How so?

    An element of truth would be an axiom that some other statement depends on. If some system is helpful in making predictions in the future after being used hundreds or thousands of times, then there is something there. That doesn't always mean that the next time is going to work out just as you planned it, especially if there are other elements or variables that could work their way into the process you are trying to predict at any given time.

    We are ignorant. We only have experience to go by. Logic tells us that experience isn't all you should go by, but here we are. We can become as objective as possible by exposing our hypotheses and theories to constant criticism and apply them to mass-produced technologies so every layman can test it as well. When a species can mold it's environment to the degree that humans have done, then there is something to be said about how accurate our understanding of the world is.

    So while we only have our experience to go by, the experience of billions using the same theories and getting the same results is something to be said about the method by which we've been able to achieve this - science and logic.

    With that said, we still have a long way to go, and that is what makes life, and science, interesting.

    Picturing an entire galaxy in your mind is impossible.83nt0n
    I think that you are confusing a galaxy with a picture of a galaxy.
    Andromeda_Galaxy_with_h-alpha.jpeg
  • A Seagull
    542
    Does a tree have a 'most important' branch? — A SeagullIt's trunk.180 Proof

    Why?

    The trunk cannot exist without the roots and leaves
    The roots cannot exist without the trunk and leaves
    The leaves cannot exist without the roots and trunk.

    Philosophy has to be holistic or it is nothing.
  • 180 Proof
    1.4k
    "Most important" does not in any way ever entail ontologically independent or separate. Besides, when the trunk dies the whole tree dies. That not true of any particular leaf branch or root.
  • 83nt0n
    33
    To my knowledge, none of them contradict any other one,Harry Hindu

    Well there is the family of liar paradoxes, which some would say shows a "contradiction" in the classical laws of logic.

    So while we only have our experience to go by, the experience of billions using the same theories and getting the same results is something to be said about the method by which we've been able to achieve this - science and logic.Harry Hindu

    I tend to agree with this. I just didn't know what you meant by element of truth.

    I think that you are confusing a galaxy with a picture of a galaxy.Harry Hindu

    Let me rephase: As far as I am aware, the human mind is not currently capable of conceiving of an entire galaxy; it's too big for us to be able to picture the scale of it in our heads. Just because we can't conceive of something doesn't seem to imply it is impossible to actually exist.

    It seems to me that you are engaging in epistemology/metaphysics in order to justify logic. To me it seems that in order to select the axioms of logic, we have to use epistemology/metaphysics to avoid being arbitrary. But it also seems that in order to make distinctions in epistemology/metaphysics we need a system of logic. Like I said before, this appears similar to the problem of the criterion.
  • 83nt0n
    33
    Why?

    The trunk cannot exist without the roots and leaves
    The roots cannot exist without the trunk and leaves
    The leaves cannot exist without the roots and trunk.

    Philosophy has to be holistic or it is nothing.
    A Seagull

    Why do we keep coming back to the tree analogy?
    If philosophy has to be holistic, then shouldn't it include a metaphilosophical theory that shows us where to start?
  • A Seagull
    542
    Why do we keep coming back to the tree analogy?83nt0n

    Because it is appropriate.
    If philosophy has to be holistic, then shouldn't it include a metaphilosophical theory that shows us where to start?83nt0n

    What is 'most important' and 'where to start' are two different questions.
  • A Seagull
    542
    Besides, when the trunk dies the whole tree dies. That not true of any particular leaf branch or root.180 Proof

    But if all the leaves die or all the roots die....
  • 83nt0n
    33
    What is 'most important' and 'where to start' are two different questions.A Seagull

    The original question was which comes first, meaning where to start. I don't recall asking which branch is the most important.
  • A Seagull
    542
    What is 'most important' and 'where to start' are two different questions. — A Seagull
    The original question was which comes first, meaning where to start. I don't recall asking which branch is the most important.
    83nt0n

    It is in the heading : Most Fundamental Branch of Philosophy
  • 83nt0n
    33
    It is in the heading : Most Fundamental Branch of PhilosophyA Seagull

    By most fundamental I mean which comes first; which one is the bedrock.
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