• Pinprick
    272
    Sure, the idea’s applicable to different groups. Although, I haven’t seen many police officers with face tattoos :lol:
  • Kenosha Kid
    559
    Although, I haven’t seen many police officers with face tattoos :lol:Pinprick

    Not a bad idea for the racist murderers among them though...
  • fdrake
    3.9k
    Isn't clothing dipped in a semiotics of racialisation anyway? I mean in the UK, there's the "hoody" archetype, which is inches away from the racist narrative of black criminal in some places, and chav/schemie/ned street gangs in others?
  • csalisbury
    2.5k
    I think, for 'middle class' folk, a lot of it comes down to having shared bread and a shared butterer. If you're around people whose fashion (body language, intonations and so on and so on) signal their integration in the same reward/punishment system that you inhabit, then there's a (usually subconscious) feeling of having your interests somewhat aligned. If not - and face tats are probably the best symbol of this, since having them by and large bars employment in all most sectors - then there is the disquietude of no-longer sharing the same background sense of some invisible force whose tacit threat of violence sustains the peaceful social interactions you prefer to think are universal, and defanged and free. (Another way to put it: you actually have to actually interact with a stranger human-to-human rather than through a disavowed, reassuring, triangulation)

    I think this is definitely racially-coded in the US, but I don't think it breaks down strictly along racial lines. I have a hunch that this has a lot to do with whether you're nurtured by the state, or whether you need to look outside of it - which flows into issues of who can rely on the police to back them up, and who can't.

    Growing up white & sheltered & middle-class in almost-all-white Maine, I definitely felt this dynamic play out even in the almost-entire absence of race differentiation. I felt all the things 'karens' classicaly feel around other races, but around other white people. (I learned how to see this way of thinking 'outside', while remembering how it was to think it from 'inside' when my family's class status sharply declined in my teens. And then how much starker these differentiations can be, and how they tend to break along race lines when I finally left my home state.)

    I think the tldr; is a lot of what's being talked about with 'fashion' has to do with the domination through violence by one group of another (to continuously demonstrate who has the 'monopoloy on legitimate force'), and so it's true it's not entirely a race thing, but in the US the history of how that dynamic plays out is, obviously, deeply,deeply grounded in race, so it's impossible to disentangle the two.
  • Pinprick
    272
    Yeah, at least then we could tell them apart.
  • Pinprick
    272
    Isn't clothing dipped in a semiotics of racialisation anyway?fdrake

    Admittedly, the rest of your post exposes my ignorance of the UK, so I can’t comment on the specific examples you referenced. If you’re asking if certain clothing is typically associated with a particular race, then yes. Du-rags in the US come to mind as an example of that. Is that what you meant?
  • unenlightened
    5k
    A medal for honesty is on its way you. Black people are despairingly familiar with the click of the door lock as they pass by a car, and the attentive store detective, and so on. We judge strangers on the information we immediately have; first appearance, then accent, possibly smell, demeanour, and so on.

    Respectable clothes are safer, white faces are safer, the familiar is safer. You and I sometimes dress to impress, and black folks sometimes bathe in bleach. And everybody most of the time dress according to local convention, to be part of a group of policemen, or city gents, or burger flippers, or members of some other gang. Young men in groups are always dangerous if they are not working and supervised.

    All this is not fact, and it is not ideology, so it is not something one can reasonably argue for or against. One understands and takes account of one's biases, or one ignores and is controlled by them.
  • Pinprick
    272
    A medal for honesty is on its way you.unenlightened

    Hooray!

    We judge strangers on the information we immediately have; first appearance, then accent, possibly smell, demeanour, and so on.unenlightened

    Do you consider this to be good/bad, or does it depend on something else? It seems negative judgements are bad, but no one bothers getting upset at being judged favorably due to appearance, or whatever else that isn’t actions.

    All this is not fact, and it is not ideology, so it is not something one can reasonably argue for or against.unenlightened

    Then what is it? Biology? Are you saying your statements aren’t factual?
  • unenlightened
    5k
    Do you consider this to be good/bad, or does it depend on something else?Pinprick
    Like being short-sighted - I'd rather not be; I try to compensate; I don't demand miracles.

    but no one bothers getting upset at being judged favorably due to appearance, or whatever else that isn’t actions.Pinprick

    I'm bothered when I trust someone because they 'look honest' and they ain't.

    It's not a fact that white faces are safer, and it's not an ideology for most people either. It's an unconscious prejudice that operates in our lives because it is built into our education and experience. Unfortunately it's a comfortable prejudice if your face fits, and many people don't want to see their own prejudice, or how they benefit from others' prejudice.
  • Pinprick
    272
    I'm bothered when I trust someone because they 'look honest' and they ain't.unenlightened

    Yeah, but the person being judged as such isn’t. That’s what I was referring to.

    It's not a fact that white faces are safer, and it's not an ideology for most people either. It's an unconscious prejudice that operates in our lives because it is built into our education and experience. Unfortunately it's a comfortable prejudice if your face fits, and many people don't want to see their own prejudice, or how they benefit from others' prejudice.unenlightened

    Oh, ok. I see what you mean.
  • Judaka
    610

    No need to see what he means. Don't ask for evidence either.
  • Pfhorrest
    2.5k
    If one did do a racism on the grounds of fashion, would that be... fashism?

    I’ll show myself to the door.
  • Pinprick
    272


    What? If I want to understand him, then I do need to see what he means. I’m not looking to agree/disagree with him or debate him on his opinion. I was just curious.
  • Judaka
    610

    No, if you want to see what he means then you need to understand him.
  • Pinprick
    272


    Meaning precedes understanding, and is a requirement for it. For example, I see no meaning in your first post, therefore I don’t understand you, or your point, if there was one.
  • Judaka
    610

    So you see what someone means without understanding what they mean? That's quite interesting.
  • Pinprick
    272


    I think you mean “without understanding them. And, to answer your question, sometimes. I may see what a statement means, but not understand why it is being stated. Much like your first post, which seemed to claim that I needed to understand him, but not see what he meant or ask for evidence. That statement seems pedantic at best. As if you attempting to make some arbitrary distinction between the phrase “see what you mean” and the term “understand” makes any significant contribution to the conversation or is relevant in any way.

    So you see, I saw the meaning of your statement, but not the purpose or intent of it. As a result, I asked what you meant. To be more specific, was that statement sarcastic? Meant to call me out for not pressing unenlightened on his evidence for his claim? Meant to point out some grammatical flaw I made in using the phrase “see what you mean” instead of understand? Something else?
  • unenlightened
    5k
    So as a white woman married to a black man and raising a biracial child I’ve had to unlearn a lot of things. I’ve also had to LEARN twice as much. I’ve had to become aware and start to notice things my mind never would have before. My husband, Walter, and I were recently discussing these things and here’s a list of all the things we’ve encountered:
    -I have to drive basically anytime we are leaving the Dayton area. We don’t talk about it each time, we just both know that if we are leaving our general “safe” area and heading to smaller town Ohio roads I’m the one driving.
    -I have to handle store clerks, returns, getting documents signed, anything with any federal building or administrative work, I get further with any type of “paperwork” thing that needs handled, people listen to me and are much more agreeable than with him.
    -The chances that we find a Black or Interracial couple on a greeting card are SLIM. Unless you want to give the same Black Couple card every year, which we have . There are hundreds of white couples to choose from though!
    -My husband goes out of his way to be nice and talk to EVERYONE. Not because he’s a people person, but because he has learned that a 6’5 Black man intimidates people and so he overcompensates by being overly friendly so people won’t be afraid of him.
    - If Walter is pushing the cart I always have to have my receipt ready when leaving the store.
    -None of our neighbors thought we owned our home, multiple neighbors stopped my father and asked him if he was the new landlord for us. Because of course, the old white man must have purchased the home. Not only do we own our home, it’s fully paid off, we have no mortgage and we paid for it BY OURSELVES.
    -It took us YEARS to find a church without racist undertones and low key racist members, YEARS!
    -When doll shopping our daughter gets 25 white options and 1-2 black or mixed race doll options.
    -The same people who stop us daily to say how adorable our daughter is, are the same people who would cross the street if Walter was walking alone.
    -We avoid all places with confederate flags.
    -If we go to Bob Evans (or any restaurant that caters to “seniors”) too early we are met with a lot of stares, the old racists eat between 4-5pm.
    -When Walter goes to a playground with our daughter he constantly stays by her side, if not he gets stares and people wonder what the “big black man” is doing on the park bench.
    -Walter is concerned our Black Lives Matter sign by the door will make us a target when he is not home so he asked me to remove it
    Now this post isn’t to make people say “oh poor you, I’m so sorry” etc etc. we have a wonderful life and are thankful for it. But...changes need to happen. This is just a small glimpse into the intentional and unintentional racism that happens everywhere, all the time. I want a better world for our daughter so I’m happy that things are changing. I know a lot of you are tired of the protests and tired of the changes and tired of people complaining. Well I’m tired of having to find a different gas station when the one we drive by has two trucks with confederate flags and 6 white boys in sleeveless shirts standing around outside. I’m tired of my husband having to talk to everyone and never complain even when they mess up his order 10,000 times, I’m tired of driving Damn near everywhere, I’m tired of the sick feeling I get when a cop pulls behind us, I’m tired of having to worry anytime my husband has to work OT and leaves in the middle of the night, I’m tired and I’ve only been on this ride 7 years, imagine a lifetime of this!
    -edited to Add our Picture because I hope when you see those images on the news of riots and destruction you also remember that the majority of those protesting and fighting for rights are just regular folks like us who want our hearts to be seen. Peaceful loving families who just want a better world.
    https://www.facebook.com/pamela.thompson.5030

    My wife isn't a 6'5" man, and I am a white man not a white woman; but otherwise our experiences are remarkably similar. This will probably not count as evidence, however many times it is repeated. Don't ask me for evidence. Don't fucking ask me for fucking evidence. Don't fucking dare to ask me for fucking evidence.
  • Judaka
    610

    I did warn you not to ask for evidence.
  • Anaxagoras
    403
    I haven’t had any particularly negative experiences with black people, and formed a very close friendship with a black person. I even had a black girlfriend at one time.Pinprick

    Sounds like you have some inherent racial bias. Whether you want to admit it or not societal stimuli which imparts negative cultural impressions in this case against black people have surely invaded your subconscious.

    For example, I don’t believe that if I passed Barack Obama in the street I would have this reaction, as opposed to, say, The Game (rapper). That said, perhaps my “racism” isn’t actually related to race. I mean, the reason why I react this way to a certain look can be attributed to any number of things; the portrayal of black people in media, rap music, etc. Or maybe it’s my fears are warranted in some way?Pinprick

    See above post....Perhaps there are levels in racial bias based on your comfort. Regardless of clothing there is an internal racial bias on your part that is subconscious, however these internal biases may become apparent based on living in an impoverished urban community. Perhaps you're making the associations of what you see in media with where you live.

    I believe that black people do intentionally dress in a way to intentionally appear intimidating more often than white people.Pinprick

    This is quite offensive. I'm a black man. I'm a professional social worker and I'd be damned if I dress in a way that not only invokes fear but police attention. Again you may have retained some prejudices you haven't really acknowledged and by the above quote, it is quite clear. I am not even sure what "intimidating clothes" looks like considering the style of urban wear are changing.

    It seems obvious that certain fashion choices are strongly associated with gangs, or “thug” personality types; facial tattoos, bandannas, loud colored clothing, certain hairstyles, etc. After all, there are certainly very few gangsters/thugs who dress like Obama on a regular basis.Pinprick

    Clothing styles may also reflect a social trend, style associated with where one lives or what is considered "in" at the time. No doubt colored bandannas and tattoos associated with their color may have gang references but that is a gang affiliation thing not an ethnic culture thing. Black Americans or all Africans of the diaspora are not homogeneous nor are we a monolith. Obamas dress style reflects his professionalism and his standard of living. Often times clothing reflects where we live, who were are personality wise, where we are in life.

    Am I a racist?Pinprick

    No. But I think you have some unacknowledged racial prejudices as I've indicated in the above.
  • Pinprick
    272
    Sounds like you have some inherent racial bias. Whether you want to admit it or not societal stimuli which imparts negative cultural impressions in this case against black people have surely invaded your subconscious.Anaxagoras

    That may be true. I’d like to think that it is only in regards to a particular type of black person, but as you say, I’m biased. Black people aren’t only portrayed negatively, and white people are portrayed negatively as well. Why would the bias only work in one case and not the other?

    Regardless of clothing there is an internal racial bias on your part that is subconsciousAnaxagoras

    How can you be so sure? How do you differentiate between a racial bias and a clothing(?) bias?

    however these internal biases may become apparent based on living in an impoverished urban community.Anaxagoras

    I don’t live in an impoverished urban community, unless you’re meaning something else. In which case I’m misunderstanding you.

    Perhaps you're making the associations of what you see in media with where you live.Anaxagoras

    No. There’s basically no black people where I live, and the vast majority of those who do dress similar to how everyone else dresses.

    This is quite offensive. I'm a black man. I'm a professional social worker and I'd be damned if I dress in a way that not only invokes fear but police attention. Again you may have retained some prejudices you haven't really acknowledged and by the above quote, it is quite clear. I am not even sure what "intimidating clothes" looks like considering the style of urban wear are changing.Anaxagoras

    It wasn’t meant to be offensive, but I’m not claiming that only black people do this, or that all black people do this. Well, my example wasn’t strictly about clothing, it included tattoos and hairstyles, but if you want to dive into what intimidating clothing is I’ll oblige. Firstly, I believe that humans are wired to interpret certain colors, or hues, as dangerous or threatening in some way. Possibly this is due to the fact that poisonous plants and/or insects are often brightly colored. Secondly, I don’t know about the intricacies of inner city fashion, but I would assume that gang members still have a particular look, generally speaking. Am I wrong? If I were to conjure a guess, I would say that in some circumstances inner city youth idolize this gang/thug mentality, and try to imitate their style in order to feel like they are part of the group. This presents an issue, because it leads to those kids being viewed as gang members. After all, if it looks and walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. But issues arise when someone is judged as a gang member, but isn’t. So, intimidating clothing can be defined as clothing worn by people who are associated with criminal activity, specifically violence and drug related crimes.

    No doubt colored bandannas and tattoos associated with their color may have gang references but that is a gang affiliation thing not an ethnic culture thing.Anaxagoras

    Right, but gangs are often racially or ethnically grouped. For example, MS-13 is a Hispanic gang, correct? So, we have specific gangs whose members are of a specific race/ethnicity, and have a specific style. What then should the default assumption be when I see someone of this specific ethnicity/race exhibiting this specific style?

    Black Americans or all Africans of the diaspora are not homogeneous nor are we a monolith.Anaxagoras

    Of course not. I never insinuated that they were.

    Obamas dress style reflects his professionalism and his standard of living.Anaxagoras

    Right, but doesn’t the same logic apply to those whose dress reflects their criminality?

    Often times clothing reflects where we live, who were are personality wise, where we are in life.Anaxagoras

    Right again, but that’s precisely what I’m doing; judging someone’s personality, intentions, etc. based on their clothing.

    But I think you have some unacknowledged racial prejudices as I've indicated in the above.Anaxagoras

    Isn’t that what I’m doing in this thread? Exposing my prejudices so that they can be acknowledged and categorized accordingly?
  • Anaxagoras
    403
    Black people aren’t only portrayed negatively, and white people are portrayed negatively as well.Pinprick

    Globally, whites are portrayed favorably. Ask Indians of India. Ask the Japanese and other cultures what pigmentation would they like to be or are encouraged to be?

    How can you be so sure?Pinprick

    Because you said:

    I believe that black people do intentionally dress in a way to intentionally appear intimidating more often than white people.Pinprick

    How do you differentiate between a racial bias and a clothing(?) bias?Pinprick

    See above....You...said...black people....You said black people....that means me, my friends from college...everyone that identifies as black.......You did not say some, or those in your community, you said black people.

    I don’t live in an impoverished urban community,Pinprick

    Then where does your issues regarding clothing in relation to black people come from? I mean whites dress a certain aggressive way, Asians, Arabs, and other people dress in a certain aggressive way why do you single out black people if you don't live in an impoverished community because I wonder where it comes from?

    There’s basically no black people where I livePinprick

    So why do you fear black people who dress in a particular clothing?

    It wasn’t meant to be offensive, but I’m not claiming that only black people do this, or that all black people do this. Well, my example wasn’t strictly about clothingPinprick

    You need to formulate your words differently between black people, some black people, or black people you know or are around.

    Right, but gangs are often racially or ethnically grouped.Pinprick

    Sure based on demographics.

    So, we have specific gangs whose members are of a specific race/ethnicity, and have a specific style. What then should the default assumption be when I see someone of this specific ethnicity/race exhibiting this specific style?Pinprick

    A gang member nothing more. MS-13 is a Salvadorian gang but that is not an accurate representation of people who live in El Salvador. It is a gang nothing more.

    I never insinuated that they were.Pinprick

    But you have when you said "Black people" instead of saying some or those who you live with.

    Right again, but that’s precisely what I’m doing; judging someone’s personality, intentions, etc. based on their clothing.Pinprick

    No you're not because you keep saying black people. Not some, nor those who you live around, but black people. That was a general statement you've made.

    Isn’t that what I’m doing in this thread? Exposing my prejudices so that they can be acknowledged and categorized accordingly?Pinprick

    You are. I'm just giving you a perspective as a black man and how it appears to me.
  • Pinprick
    272
    Globally, whites are portrayed favorably. Ask Indians of India. Ask the Japanese and other cultures what pigmentation would they like to be or are encouraged to be?Anaxagoras

    I’m not arguing against this. My point is that all races are sometimes portrayed negatively, and all races are sometimes portrayed favorably. It seems like in light of this, the question is how much negative portrayal is needed to form a racial bias? IOW’s why am I not biased towards other races I’ve seen be negatively portrayed? And that question is meant to be hypothetical, not an admission to only being biased against black people.

    See above....You...said...black people....You said black people....that means me, my friends from college...everyone that identifies as black.......You did not say some, or those in your community, you said black people.Anaxagoras

    So you differentiate between racial and clothing biases based on the use of the term “black people?” I guess that is my mistake then, but I thought it was clear that I was only referring to a specific type of black person. After this clarification, does your position still stand?

    Then where does your issues regarding clothing in relation to black people come from? I mean whites dress a certain aggressive way, Asians, Arabs, and other people dress in a certain aggressive way why do you single out black people if you don't live in an impoverished community because I wonder where it comes from?Anaxagoras

    Specifically when I’ve traveled and encountered the types of black people I’ve described. If you’re looking for an explanation, it’s that I associate the type of black person I’ve described with violence/aggression due to him appearing to be a gang member. And that is the case because gang members are violent and have a similar appearance.

    BTW, should I be offended or consider you to be racially biased since you didn’t say some white people, Asians, or Arabs?

    You need to formulate your words differently between black people, some black people, or black people you know or are around.Anaxagoras

    Ok. I advise you do the same.

    A gang member nothing more. MS-13 is a Salvadorian gang but that is not an accurate representation of people who live in El Salvador. It is a gang nothing more.Anaxagoras

    Ok, and what should the default reaction be to someone you assume is a gang member?

    I'm just giving you a perspective as a black man and how it appears to me.Anaxagoras

    Your perspective is appreciated.
  • Anaxagoras
    403
    My point is that all races are sometimes portrayed negatively, and all races are sometimes portrayed favorably.Pinprick

    Sure.

    It seems like in light of this, the question is how much negative portrayal is needed to form a racial bias?Pinprick

    Media and consistency. If you can convince the world an ethnic group is bad over time people will believe it.

    So you differentiate between racial and clothing biases based on the use of the term “black people?”Pinprick

    What I’m saying is you’re making generalizations and not carefully placing your words.

    I guess that is my mistake then, but I thought it was clear that I was only referring to a specific type of black person. After this clarification, does your position still stand?Pinprick

    When you say blacks (plural) or “black people” you’re making it clear you’re castigating an entire group. As far as differentiating I guess because I live in California and exposed to different groups of people, I don’t associate clothing with ethnicity. However there are cultural trends that other cultures adopt.

    If you’re looking for an explanation, it’s that I associate the type of black person I’ve described with violence/aggression due to him appearing to be a gang member. And that is the case because gang members are violent and have a similar appearance.Pinprick

    Then just say gang members. Don’t say “I think black people dress aggressively on purpose” because clearly your categorizing a certain behavior with a clothing type.

    BTW, should I be offended or consider you to be racially biased since you didn’t say some white people, Asians, or Arabs?Pinprick

    No because I was making a point of you singling out one specific ethnic group. To demonstrate your knack of racial bias. I mean you sure didn’t mention the Hells Angels of Nazi Skin heads or the Yakuza.

    Ok. I advise you do the same.Pinprick

    I didn’t begin this thread with a generalization, you did.

    Ok, and what should the default reaction be to someone you assume is a gang member?Pinprick

    SMH. I mean gang signs for one. Tagging, tattoos, where you’re located at for starters.
  • Pinprick
    272
    As far as differentiating I guess because I live in California and exposed to different groups of people, I don’t associate clothing with ethnicity.Anaxagoras

    Really? Not even sombreros or burkas?

    Then just say gang members. Don’t say “I think black people dress aggressively on purpose” because clearly your categorizing a certain behavior with a clothing type.Anaxagoras

    I’m speaking specifically about black people who dress like gang members. I’m willing to make the statement that black gang members have a distinct look that is distinguishable from gang members of other races. So when I refer to black people within the context of this thread, that is the group I’m referring to. Therefore, just saying “gang members” isn’t appropriate. Firstly because that term is more general than the group I’m discussing, and secondly because I’m not going to assume that every black person dressed this way is an actual gang member. Most likely the vast majority of them that I have encountered are not.

    I mean you sure didn’t mention the Hells Angels of Nazi Skin heads or the Yakuza.Anaxagoras

    Because I have no known interactions with with either group, or people who appear to belong to either group. Therefore, I can’t say whether or not I would feel intimidated and have the same response or not. Presumably I would, but I would never be viewed as racist against white people, who I assume make up the majority of the Hells Angels and Skinheads, considering that I’m white as well.

    I didn’t begin this thread with a generalization, you did.Anaxagoras

    I’m generalizing all black people who appear to be gang members, as gang members. That’s it. Doing so seems justified to me, but like I mentioned in an earlier post, others view doing so as racist.

    SMH. I mean gang signs for one. Tagging, tattoos, where you’re located at for starters.Anaxagoras

    I mean how should I react when I see a black person that looks like a gang member? Should I be cautious and avoid eye contact, etc.?
  • Anaxagoras
    403
    Really? Not even sombreros or burkas?Pinprick

    I acknowledge that sombreros are a Mexican tradition, and Burkas are an Afghanistanian tradition, but I don't look at someone's clothing and say "yeah he dresses like a Mexican" because for one, I don't know their nationality just by observing them and two, more ethnic cultures are not homogenous.

    I’m speaking specifically about black people who dress like gang members.Pinprick

    There is no gang attire per se, however there are pieces of clothing that can be gang affiliated. I mean, if I sag my pants, or wear a particular brand of shoe that doesn't necessarily mean one is in a gang.

    I’m willing to make the statement that black gang members have a distinct look that is distinguishable from gang members of other races.Pinprick

    That is false. For someone who lives in an area that doesn't have many blacks you're making a lot of assumptions here.

    So when I refer to black people within the context of this thread, that is the group I’m referring to.Pinprick

    I wonder why you're singling out black people period. I mean there are dangerous white bikers who dress a certain way, not sure why you're not mentioning them. My question is why black people in general? You could've picked any other ethnic group.

    Therefore, just saying “gang members” isn’t appropriate.Pinprick

    No it is appropriate because all black gang members don't dress alike. I know, I grew up in the lifestyle and have family in that lifestyle.

    Because I have no known interactions with with either group, or people who appear to belong to either group.Pinprick

    So maybe you should have changed your thread to "black people, fashion, and racism" then. Because the title is to broad because all you want to do is discuss about black people.

    I’m generalizing all black people who appear to be gang members, as gang members.Pinprick

    I wonder what this has to do with philosophy because you don't even know how gang members dress to begin with.

    Doing so seems justified to me, but like I mentioned in an earlier post, others view doing so as racist.Pinprick

    You really need to do some self-reflection and check your own biases.

    I mean how should I react when I see a black person that looks like a gang member? Should I be cautious and avoid eye contact, etc.?Pinprick

    No. Grow some balls look them in the eye and acknowledge them like a human being.

    /End Thread
  • Pinprick
    272
    I acknowledge that sombreros are a Mexican tradition, and Burkas are an Afghanistanian tradition, but I don't look at someone's clothing and say "yeah he dresses like a Mexican" because for one, I don't know their nationality just by observing them and two, more ethnic cultures are not homogenous.Anaxagoras

    That’s not what I’m doing either. I’m not saying someone dresses like a black person, I’m saying they dress like a gang member.

    There is no gang attire per se, however there are pieces of clothing that can be gang affiliated. I mean, if I sag my pants, or wear a particular brand of shoe that doesn't necessarily mean one is in a gang.Anaxagoras

    I agree, and interpret those pieces of clothing as markers or signals that the person wearing them may be a gang member, and judge them accordingly.

    That is false. For someone who lives in an area that doesn't have many blacks you're making a lot of assumptions here.Anaxagoras

    Ok, but there are clothing styles that can be eliminated, right? Do black gang members typically wear leather jackets, dress suits, etc.?

    I wonder why you're singling out black people period.Anaxagoras

    Because this thread is about my personal experience. I haven’t encountered anyone other than black people that appeared to be gang members.

    I mean there are dangerous white bikers who dress a certain way, not sure why you're not mentioning them. My question is why black people in general? You could've picked any other ethnic group.Anaxagoras

    Yeah, there are definitely dangerous people that belong to other gangs and ethnicities, but I haven’t encountered them. Also, I would never question whether or not I was racist if my reactions were directed towards a member of my own race.

    No it is appropriate because all black gang members don't dress alike. I know, I grew up in the lifestyle and have family in that lifestyle.Anaxagoras

    I don’t know if that’s true or not. Could you give me a couple examples? But either way, just saying gang members excludes those that are not gang members, but appear to be.

    So maybe you should have changed your thread to "black people, fashion, and racism" then.Anaxagoras

    Maybe, but when racism is talked about in America, it’s almost exclusively about black people.

    I wonder what this has to do with philosophy because you don't even know how gang members dress to begin with.Anaxagoras

    Do black gang members not typically have tattoos, bandannas, brightly colored clothing, or loose fitting pants?

    You really need to do some self-reflection and check your own biases.Anaxagoras

    Umm... ok?

    No. Grow some balls look them in the eye and acknowledge them like a human being.Anaxagoras

    First of all, if I did this, and my assumption was correct, would it increase my likelihood of being harassed, mugged, etc.? If so, then how is that the correct action to take?

    End ThreadAnaxagoras

    Lol, nice try, but you may exit the conversation any time you feel the need to do so. Although, I hope you stick around.
  • Anaxagoras
    403
    Because this thread is about my personal experience. I haven’t encountered anyone other than black people that appeared to be gang members.Pinprick

    Maybe you should change your environment.
  • Pinprick
    272


    Why, so I can be exposed to more gang members? :lol:
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