• Benkei
    7.3k
    Looks exactly like Hong Kong. :sad:
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Looks exactly like Hong Kong.Benkei

    That was my first thought as well. For all the American wringing about "Chynah", their police state is no less effective.

    It's clearly 2nd degree if someone says "I can't breathe" and is clearly in distress and you continue to sit on him like that for 4 minutes, which gives more than enough time to reconsider, then we're talking intent.Benkei

    I agree but I suspect 3rd is the pragmatic choice. There's a chance he might be able to weasel his way out of 2nd, but 3rd is more likely to stick, even if any human being with a pulse would probably call it 2nd. They gotta play the justice system, not the crime.
  • Benkei
    7.3k
    I don't know about the US, but in the Netherlands you can charge someone with 2nd or 3rd degree in the same writ, where 2nd degree is the primary claim and 3rd degree the secondary. You argue your case trying to prove both, so if the primary claim isn't accepted, you still have your secondary one.

    But seriously, most people don't struggle against police officers as that will just escalate violence. And if you're black, probably doubly so. So we have a man who isn't struggling anymore but complaining about his breathing.

    Change the imagery for a moment where the police officer isn't choking him with a knee but both his hands. For 4 minutes. And the other guy just stands there while he's doing it.

    To be honest, in the Netherlands you can probably go for 1st degree as those 4 minutes gave him time to reconsider, sufficient time for it to be considered premeditated according to our court cases.

    We had a case someone who was fighting stepped away, drew a knife and then killed his opponent. The fact he broke away to reach for a deadlier weapon made it premeditated according to the courts as it allowed a moment for reflection.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    I don't know about the US, but in the Netherlands you can charge someone with 2nd or 3rd degree in the same writ, where 2nd degree is the primary claim and 3rd degree the secondary. You argue your case trying to prove both, so if the primary claim isn't accepted, you still have your secondary one.Benkei

    That's super interesting. I'm not well versed on these issues, but I wonder if the trade off here is thay prosecutors and can throw everything at the wall just to make sure something sticks. Not that that wouldn't be appropriate in this case.

    Still this is all academic. Charging is one thing. Getting his ass thrown to the actual dogs is another. The US has a long and storied history of letting killer cops off the hook at trial. Its hard to imagine that they'd do that here, but - Rodney King.

    I should say: one disanalogy with HK is that American protestors here look eminantly capable and willing to actually shoot back at their oppressors. There are already videos of cops getting fucked up circulating out there. HK managed to keep it peaceful for years. Americans, wretched creatures as they are, are baying for blood. They might get it.
  • Echarmion
    2.5k


    Yesterday it was the CNN crew being arrested, now this. Who trains these cops?
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    The same people who train them to murder black men on video. Reporters are the least of it.
  • Benkei
    7.3k
    It was worse than I thought with the Floyd killing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/30/video-timeline-george-floyd-death/?arc404=true

    Even after an ambulance was called, code 2 raised to 3, after bystanders warned he was unresponsive, that asshole still kept his knee on George in total for over 8 minutes. That's premeditated in my book, especially where it concerns someone who's supposed to be trained in the use of force. 3rd degree charges are a slap on the wrist.

    Another thing that I noticed is the number of police involved. There's an escalation that doesn't seem warranted by the circumstances.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    I've come around to what you've said about the charges. It's not a topic I'd given much thought to before, but the more I've looked into it the more absurd 3rd degree seems. The cop had ample time and opportunity to understand what was happening. There was no heat of the moment. There was no 'necessity'. That Wapo reconstruction makes that clear as day. And then there's Beau, who is among the most insightful commentators out there:



    I'm not going to talk about Twitter anymore. It's shameful.
  • Baden
    15.7k


    It was not only murder in the second degree, Floyd was tortured to death in what must be considered a hate crime. The third-degree murder charge is a farce. Essentially the minimum that those in charge could get away with bringing forward. It's all about protecting the officers over there. Anything short of Chauvin's head on a stick is a travesty, but he'll probably get away with 10-15 years.
  • 180 Proof
    14.5k
    What is it you want to see happen? I want to know.frank
    I start here, where I live, tonight, with this comrade's plea for sober, critical, angry praxis:

    https://youtu.be/FKc1o5mJVnQ
  • frank
    14.7k


    :up:

    a1aeszbcvj151.jpg

    George Floyd
  • Deleteduserrc
    2.8k
    Tonight is going to be a turning point, I think. At the very least, this week. We're living through something very big. This is well beyond right and wrong conduct ('is looting a legitimate protest'?) or anything like that.

    "the canons are falling
    one by one"
  • Benkei
    7.3k
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/minneapolis-protests-journalists-teargassed-george-floyd

    The number of incidents with reporters surprises me. Is this just a result of the type of reporting? For instance, does HK police perpetrate similar levels of violence against reporters, accidental or not?
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Minneapolis Gestapo shooting people on their own property.

  • BitconnectCarlos
    2k
    Seems to me the only reasonable position on this is obviously to be shocked and upset by the Floyd murder, upset about police brutality, but also upset by the rioter's destruction and their targeting of innocent businesses as well as business owners which had nothing to do with the murder. I see both sides at fault here and I don't trust people who focus solely on one side of the problem.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2k


    Destroying the property of a multibillion dollar company that stole employee wages is hardly "violence"

    Yeah, keep punching up. The CEO of Target and the board of directors will really get the message now. Meanwhile, you've got all the (presumably lower or lower middle class) entry-level target workers out of a job and the people of the community have one less place to shop and will likely need to travel further now and possibly pay more elsewhere. But we showed the rich!
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Imagine being your first comment here defending Target. Fucking hell. Brainwashed twat.
  • unenlightened
    8.9k
    So where do the CEOs live? Martha's Vineyard? Beverley Hills? Twin towers?
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2k


    You do realize target is made up of individuals, right? And that many of those individuals are the front-line, entry level workers who likely live paycheck to paycheck or near to it and are now out of work? And you do realize that consumers may need to pay more for goods now? But none of this matters to you, we need to burn the corporations now. It's just a matter of principle, I get it.



    I don't see where you're going with this.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Yeah, sorry, I 'don't trust' people whose first instinct is to defend Target in the wake of all that's happened. Maybe consider that if a Target being driven out means that everyone in a community is going to be fucked, then maybe your entire social system is hostage to an incredibly shitty arrangement and it doesn't need to be apologized for someone who gives more of a shit about a MNC then systemically murdered black people. Yeah get fucked. All those minimum wage, non-heatlhcare covered jobs Oh NO.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2k
    Yeah, sorry, I 'don't trust' people whose first instinct is to defend Target in the wake of all that's happened.

    Go back and read my post above the Target one.

    All those minimum wage, non-heatlhcare covered jobs Oh NO.

    Who do you think gets hired for these jobs? It's entry level workers with likely very few other options. Our unemployment rate is absurdly high and you seem to have no problem adding to it as long as it's minimum wage jobs or lower wage jobs.... it's like impossible to reason with you because you just don't care about these individuals who are out of work now. You're just hyper focused on trying to hurt the elite.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    It's entry level workers with likely very few other options.BitconnectCarlos

    And you think this is because what? Because people burned down a Target? You think that's why people have 'few other options'?

    And there's nothing reasonable about "'there are good people on both sides" centrists. If I could pick either fascists or centrists to be all collectively drowned at sea, I'd go with centrists, because at least then everyone would know who the enemy is - and just how impossibly weak they are without the support of unprincipled "both sides" charlatans.
  • BitconnectCarlos
    2k


    And you think this is because what? Because people burned down a Target? You think that's why people have 'few other options'?

    ...because many of them are sales associates at a target. have you ever worked as a sales associate in retail? it's an entry level job.

    In any case no one is really getting hired right now. They likely out of work because their workplace was destroyed. There are consequences for actions. Delivery companies which may have been already struggling now have one less customer.

    If I could pick either fascists or centrists to be all collectively drowned at sea, I'd go with centrists, because at least then everyone would know who the enemy is.

    nice to know that i'm talking to a reasonable person here.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    ...because many of them are sales associates at a target. have you ever worked as a sales associate in retail? it's an entry level job.BitconnectCarlos

    My God, you really gonna miss the point that badly and make me spell it out for you? No, it's because the society you live in is so absurdly, supremely shit, that the loss of a couple of minimum wage jobs - which contribute to keeping an underclass which is murdered with impunity in place - can result in communal hurt. There are 'few other options' because America is a systemically shit place, and not because some people - angry over the public execution of a black man, one of hundreds, for whom non-violent protest has been entirely ineffective, and of which you apparently have barely anything to say - burned down a fucking Target.

    And once more just because I know certain people are slow to clue in: if the loss of a Target is going to have such apparently catastrophic effects, then the loss of that Target isn't - has never been - the problem.

    nice to know that i'm talking to a reasonable person here.BitconnectCarlos

    Yeah, not an unprincipled git.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k

    It's a wonder that more Targets are not brunt to the ground.
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