• frank
    5.1k
    Ahmaud Arbery was killed by two white men in Georgia last April. Though the local authorities were aware of it, no charges were made. If not for Arbery's cousin, who brought the story to a newspaper, the death of Arbery would have gone unnoticed.

    My question is: how common is this in Georgia? In the US? In the world? What factors make it more likely to happen?
  • frank
    5.1k
    Sorry, I should specified that I meant the failure to arrest the suspects. How often does that happen, do you think?
  • NOS4A2
    3.3k
    I suspect that it just takes a while to investigate these things, for instance the video of Aubrey snooping around a construction site, which is odd for a jogger, and the shooting, which could be construed as self-defense. A hate crime and cover-up? I doubt it. More likely just stupidity.
  • frank
    5.1k

    The DA shut the police investigation down because she had a relationship with one of the suspects.
  • Benkei
    3k
    Hmmm... that's pretty fucking insane.
  • NOS4A2
    3.3k


    Yeah the father worked as a DA investigator for over 20 years and retired in 2019. Conflict of interest.
  • frank
    5.1k
    Yeah the father worked as a DA investigator for over 20 years and retired in 2019. Conflict of interest.NOS4A2

    Do conflicts of interest apply to DA's? I assume they have assistants if they feel they can't be neutral.
  • frank
    5.1k
    Hmmm... that's pretty fucking insane.Benkei

    Yep.
  • Harry Hindu
    3.2k
    The DA shut the police investigation down because she had a relationship with one of the suspectsfrank
    Are we talking about racism or nepotism/favoritism?
  • frank
    5.1k
    Are we talking about racism or nepotism/favoritism?Harry Hindu

    Favoritism, but then why did the DA think she could get away with ignoring a possible murder? Because the victim was black?

    Would this happen where you live? If not, why not? If so, why so?
  • NOS4A2
    3.3k


    I don’t know. She was one of the shooter’s boss. But the DA rightfully recused herself. The other DA who recused himself thought the father/son were innocent, claiming citizens arrests were legal. The guys filming from the dash cam were also in hot pursuit of Aubrey, suspecting Him of burglary. But yeah it needs to be investigated by the DOJ because there are too many relationships there.
  • tim wood
    4.4k
    snooping around a construction site,NOS4A2
    Tangential point. Certain civic/civil functions are public because there is an overriding community interest in what's going on. Weddings, funerals, trials are examples. Having in another life spent time on construction sites, I know very well that it is in the community interest to to be able to see what's going on at such a site. I have therefore always felt I had a basic right to enter any construction site and look around. Of course this subject to some constraints for lots of reasons. That is, being on or at a construction site is not eo ipso snooping or stealing or anything like. It could be, but it also could be that the person is a neighbor, sub-contractor, inspector of some kind, or even a prospective buyer!

    Mere presence, then, as excuse and justification for anything, is hollow and a sham.
  • Harry Hindu
    3.2k
    Favoritism, but then why did the DA think she could get away with ignoring a possible murder? Because the victim was black?frank
    Maybe because she was favored by her superiors.

    This constant insinuation that any time a white person and black person end up in a conflict that it has to be because of the racist white's fault, simply isn't warranted.

    provided some interesting statistics here:
    Of the 6,266 known offenders:

    53.6% were White
    24.0% were Black or African American
    12.9% race unknown
    FBI Hate Crime Statistics

    Here are the stats on the racial composition of the country:
    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218
    Whites make up 75% to blacks 13%, yet blacks are 24% of the hate crimes. So it seems to me that blacks are the ones that have instigated more than their fair share of hate crimes when compared to the percent of the population. So it seems to me that you are more likely to meet a racist when meeting a black person than meeting a white person for the first time, not the other way around.

    Was the black judge that sentenced the white woman to jail for simply trying to make a living for herself and her employees racist?
  • NOS4A2
    3.3k


    Mere presence, then, as excuse and justification for anything, is hollow and a sham.

    I agree. He did nothing wrong. I was just saying how his actions could be construed as worthy of investigation, which could account for the length of time it took to lay charges.
  • frank
    5.1k
    This constant insinuation that any time a white person and black person end up in a conflict that it has to be because of the racist white's fault, simply isn't warranted.Harry Hindu

    So if the victim had been a white man, you think the same events would have followed?
  • Harry Hindu
    3.2k
    So if the victim had been a white man, you think the same events would have followed?frank
    That there is favoritism within positions of power? Sure. Your skin color doesn't make a difference when someone's position of power is on the line. They will throw anyone under the bus to maintain their grip on power.

    Just look at Joe Biden. He supported the right of women to be heard when it comes to sexual harassment/assault, but when his aspirations for power are threatened, he changes his tune.
  • tim wood
    4.4k
    could be construed as worthy of investigation,NOS4A2

    Exactly so. And if and as worthy of investigation, then an appropriate investigation would be appropriate.
  • Monitor
    163
    I know very well that it is in the community interest to to be able to see what's going on at such a site. I have therefore always felt I had a basic right to enter any construction site and look around.tim wood

    Tim I read and respect a lot of what you post, but this is a doosey. I am a general contractor among other things and you have no basic right to enter a construction site at all. It's private property and your presence is a liability and you will happily sue the contractor when you drive a nail through your foot. And you will win. And my insurance won't cover it because I didn't keep you off. But you know very well and feel you have a right?

    and the shooting, which could be construed as self-defense.NOS4A2

    Why do armed white men always feel their life is in immediate danger from unarmed black men? Do we really believe they were going to use there guns to turn them over to the police?
  • Maw
    1.9k
    Good thing it takes a viral video to go national to get anything done in this god forsaken country
  • tim wood
    4.4k
    Tim I read and respect a lot of what you post, but this is a doosey. I am a general contractor among other things and you have no basic right to enter a construction site at all. It's private property and your presence is a liability and you will happily sue the contractor when you drive a nail through your foot. And you will win. And my insurance won't cover it because I didn't keep you off. But you know very well and feel you have a right?Monitor
    I think you mean legal right, yes?

    I have therefore always felt I had a basic righttim wood
    Commercial projects no argument. Most folks including me cannot assess what's going on in a commercial building site. Inspectors, then for commercial sites. Urban sites likely are fenced and chained simply because of the possibility of theft. But I have never seen a suburban or rural residential project secured - until the house is sealed with doors and windows. Nor even with signs. Agreed it's private property, and agreed I have no right that supersedes private property rights. But house building, that which concerns everyone, really, I feel and would argue - am doing it here - that while the structure is open to the elements, people can inspect as a matter of community interest and concern. And I've never known a builder who objected to such a visit - and he or she could indeed post the property if they wanted to.

    In sum, you're exactly right and I'm wrong, but the practice doesn't seem to go that way. and I find some reason in the practice. But I can't remember ever going onto posted property. Do you/did you post signs on yours? ,
  • Monitor
    163
    Do you/did you post signs on yours? ,tim wood

    Yes. Most insurance requires it I believe. It does happen I agree. I've found people who have made it to the second floor and they weren't wearing shoes. That is when I object the most.
  • Bitter Crank
    8.7k
    The killing most likely had significant racial components, but there are many ways to be bad that don't involve race. Vigilante justice (most common in the southern and western US) for example, need not involve racial issues.

    BTW, I like to check out construction sites, just to see how things get put together; how big/deep the basement is going to be; or walk around rail yards--just what did the inside of a caboose look like? The murdered man did this in broad daylight, (I gather).

    Maybe he had to take a leak?

    @HANOVER, how common are murders in Georgia, these days? Prosecution rates and success?
  • frank
    5.1k
    But what about the DA? She told the police to stand down. That makes no sense.
  • Bitter Crank
    8.7k
    The behavior of law enforcement in the county where this happened displays yet more ways of being bad. Corruption (which comes in 31 flavors, like ice cream) doesn't always involve financial malfeasance.

    I'm not excusing or making lightweight of any of this. The murders and the prosecutors are very bad.

    To borrow a phrase, "corruption is socially constructed"; it isn't just what a bad cop or bad DA does. It's also what the dominant society in that time and place is willing to put up with. Some communities (in all parts of the country) are at least somewhat willing to put up with some degree of official corruption--I'm thinking of Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles which have displayed outstanding examples of corruption. Dig down and one finds examples of corruption (any of 31 flavors) in one's home town.

    Citizen activism and vigilance are the antidotes to corruption; a working press also helps. More and more places have lost their local newspapers, which are a critical piece of community vigilance.
  • Hanover
    5.6k
    My question is: how common is this in Georgia? In the US? In the world? What factors make it more likely to happen?frank

    I live in Georgia, and, anecdotally speaking, it's pretty uncommon. I can't recall the last one actually. It's for that reason it makes the news.

    My take on this is that it was a couple of redneck, racist vigilantes who heard there was a guy committing the high crime of misdemeanor trespass on a construction site and they decided to arm themselves and administer a citizen's arrest (wtf?) with a shot gun while another stood watch in the bed of the truck with a handgun. I'm sure the guy was up to no good, but the remedy isn't to go out and kill him.

    They claimed there had been a number of break ins in the area, but I've heard there was only one break in the last month and it was of a gun that was stolen out of someone's car.

    Why there was a one month cover-up is very problematic. They asked the mother of the deceased and she said she had accepted her son was killed in self-defense, which means she wasn't out looking to scream racism prior to seeing the video. She didn't think her son a saint, but she is now understandably upset.

    Brunswick is a port town and I've always remembered as a kid driving through it on the way to the beaches with the paper mills that made the entire town stink to high hell. It's a poor south Georgia city, with a very wealthy class of haves (versus the have nots) that have their Summer homes on St. Simons Island and Sea Island.

  • Benkei
    3k
    Blocked for EU IP addresses.
  • StreetlightX
    5.3k


    This one?: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-woman-shot-killed-after-kentucky-police-entered-her-home-n1205651

    Basically, cops stormed into the house of a black woman - an EMT - during a 'no knock' raid and shot her dead - the cops had the wrong address. The lawyer representing this case is the same as the lawyer in Arbery's case.
  • Harry Hindu
    3.2k
    So is this a case of racism, or just plain stupidity? Stupidity is the act of making category errors. Racism is a kind of stupidity, but not the only kind. The article even says that the police "blindy fired", which seems to imply that they never even saw their victim and her skin color before shooting. That is basically two stupid acts together, mistaking the home of their suspect and then "blindly firing" inside a house, but not racism.

    This is what I'm talking about - the unwarranted insinuation of racism whenever a conflict occurs between people who's skin color happens to be different. This is another category error (act of stupidity) - in thinking that the cause of the conflict always has something to do with the difference of skin color.
  • StreetlightX
    5.3k
    Yes, yes, there's always an excuse - and someone waiting to excuse it.
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