• Gnomon
    546
    Based on this post of yours, could someone go far as to say with the creation of the universe it was inevitable that a being that has feeling and/or consciessness would come to exist? Or is that a stretch?christian2017
    Yes. I have concluded the the emergence of intelligent creatures was programmed into the Singularity that caused pure Energy to complexify over time into Matter, and eventually into Minds. I don't know for sure where we go from here, but I'm pretty sure that 21st century humanity is not the final solution to the intention behind evolution.

    Teilhard deChardin imagined that evolution was essentially developing the Big Bang embryo into a child of god, that he referred to as the Cosmic Christ. More secular scientists, think that robots will replace humans as the pinnacle of Natural and Cultural evolution. But I just don't have enough information to predict the future course of world-building. So, I tend to focus on the here & now. :nerd:
  • Gnomon
    546
    I actually didn't know you didn't like the Kabbalah, i don't like the Kabbalah either. I don't like the talmud but i didn't want to bore you with that right now. It deals with the way it is worded in relation to the old testament.christian2017
    I don't dislike the Kabblah more than any other ancient scriptures. But I am wary of how people get sucked-in to the vortex of magic & mysticism. Like Gnostics, they believe they know secrets that give them supernatural powers. But they're just fooling themselves and others. The Kabbalah is definitely not compatible with Christianity, or even with second temple Judaism, for that matter. :gasp:
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    So perhaps with "god of philosophers", the main god intended philosophers and/or people to discover him through deep thought?
    — christian2017
    As a rule, philosophers such as Spinoza, don't make any attempt to read the mind of G*D. They merely assume the existence of an intentional creator of the world as an Axiom, upon which they build a worldview. But they are still free to try to interpret the intentions of the creator from the way the world works.

    For example, evolution seems to be causing the physical world to change in the direction of increasing complexity and intelligence. This was not apparent to the ancient priests & prophets, before the advent of scientific investigation. So the concept of Evolution or progressive change would not have occurred to them. Yet now we can look back at the Big Bang and follow the emergence of organization from energetic atoms to living organisms, and eventually to thinking beings. And some of those thinkers may conclude that their personal interpretation of divine intentions is the true Will of G*D. But I am not that confident in my sign-reading abilities. So my relationship to G*D is not a personal friendship, but more like developing a rapport with Nature, that makes my life more meaningful. :cool:


    Rapport : relation; connection, especially harmonious or sympathetic relation:
    Gnomon

    thats fair.
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    Based on this post of yours, could someone go far as to say with the creation of the universe it was inevitable that a being that has feeling and/or consciessness would come to exist? Or is that a stretch?
    — christian2017
    Yes. I have concluded the the emergence of intelligent creatures was programmed into the Singularity that caused pure Energy to complexify over time into Matter, and eventually into Minds. I don't know for sure where we go from here, but I'm pretty sure that 21st century humanity is not the final solution to the intention behind evolution.

    Teilhard deChardin imagined that evolution was essentially developing the Big Bang embryo into a child of god, that he referred to as the Cosmic Christ. More secular scientists, think that robots will replace humans as the pinnacle of Natural and Cultural evolution. But I just don't have enough information to predict the future course of world-building. So, I tend to focus on the here & now. :nerd:
    Gnomon

    cool. Considering i believe in aliens, i don't think this is entirely unplausible.
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    I actually didn't know you didn't like the Kabbalah, i don't like the Kabbalah either. I don't like the talmud but i didn't want to bore you with that right now. It deals with the way it is worded in relation to the old testament.
    — christian2017
    I don't dislike the Kabblah more than any other ancient scriptures. But I am wary of how people get sucked-in to the vortex of magic & mysticism. Like Gnostics, they believe they know secrets that give them supernatural powers. But they're just fooling themselves and others. The Kabbalah is definitely not compatible with Christianity, or even with second temple Judaism, for that matter. :gasp:
    Gnomon

    Based on the differences between the Talmud and Old Testament, i agree.
  • Gnomon
    546
    cool. Considering i believe in aliens, i don't think this is entirely unplausible.christian2017
    Modern Aliens are equivalent to ancient Angels. They are messengers from the great beyond, but they are very secretive, and only appear to a select few people. Have you ever seen one? Have you received a message of peace, or a warning for us to stop sinning against Nature or God? :joke:
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    cool. Considering i believe in aliens, i don't think this is entirely unplausible.
    — christian2017
    Modern Aliens are equivalent to ancient Angels. They are messengers from the great beyond, but they are very secretive, and only appear to a select few people. Have you ever seen one? Have you received a message of peace, or a warning for us to stop sinning against Nature or God? :joke:
    Gnomon

    My assumption is the first part of the statement your being serious or atleast mostly serious.

    I see wierd things every day. Typically i attribute them to Jesus Christ.

    My belief in aliens is due to something i read in "a brief history of time" by Stephen Hawkings. He said if you roll a trillion sided dice (die) a trillion times you should expect to roll an 18 if your desire was to roll an 18. Its commonly said earth, couldn't have this happen because there is 1 in large number for it to happen and that means God.... I believe in God/Jesus Christ for other reasons but not that. What i'm getting at is there are ridicoulous number of galaxies and even more stars (quick google or bing search). Over X time, with a trillion dice rolls, i would imagine on one of those solar systems there would be intelligent life similar to us. As i told you before just about everything or everything in the Bible can be explained with Aliens.

    But i believe in Jesus Christ. lol.
  • Gnomon
    546
    Based on the differences between the Talmud and Old Testament, i agree.christian2017
    Although it claims roots in ancient Jewish wisdom traditions, the Kabbalah is a post-Christian scripture. It implies that those ancient scriptures were written in code, so only a select few adepts can understand it. That's one thing I don't like about magical cults, they are proudly occult, and keep important stuff secret from ordinary people like me. By contrast, Science is conducted out in the open, where it can be skeptically criticized to weed-out the bad stuff. Unfortunately, most people tend to take anything remotely sciency on faith in authorities, without critical thinking. So, they can't tell the difference between reasonable Facts and irrational BS. :cool:
  • Gnomon
    546
    But i believe in Jesus Christ. lol.christian2017
    I believe in the apocalyptic Jewish preacher, but not in the mythical Roman Christ. :cool:
  • Gnomon
    546
    My belief in aliens is due to something i read in "a brief history of time" by Stephen Hawkings. He said if you roll a trillion sided dice (die) a trillion times you should expect to roll an 18 if your desire was to roll an 18.christian2017
    So, you are playing long odds that aliens are real and relevant??? :joke:
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    Based on the differences between the Talmud and Old Testament, i agree.
    — christian2017
    Although it claims roots in ancient Jewish wisdom traditions, the Kabbalah is a post-Christian scripture. It implies that those ancient scriptures were written in code, so only a select few adepts can understand it. That's one thing I don't like about magical cults, they are proudly occult, and keep important stuff secret from ordinary people like me. By contrast, Science is conducted out in the open, where it can be skeptically criticized to weed-out the bad stuff. Unfortunately, most people tend to take anything remotely sciency on faith in authorities, without critical thinking. So, they can't tell the difference between reasonable Facts and irrational BS. :cool:
    Gnomon

    more or less i agree. I have people in my family who are lower level free masons, i'm not. Some christians claim there is a close connection between free masonry and Kabbalah. My assumption is that is true.
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    But i believe in Jesus Christ. lol.
    — christian2017
    I believe in the apocalyptic Jewish preacher, but not in the mythical Roman Christ. :cool:
    Gnomon

    mythical Roman Christ? My assumption is you mean a Catholic bastardization of who Jesus Christ is?
    Members of my family are catholic but i don't consider them not christian. Millerism and theologians that went before that contributed some of Millerism theology, believe the Roman Papacy was the anti-christ or a form of it. Millerism has aspects that aren't true or were shown to be false over time based on historical events. I'm not a big roman papacy fan. I'm sure you are aware of all there scandals. I can't go into alot of detail regarding christian theology ("escatology or study of the end times) because i would be breaking forum rules. If you are interested send me a private message. I have a video that would be more interesting then reading what i have to write, plus i don't feel like writing it right now but i will if you want me to.

    No wrong answer. I'm tired.

    Did any one ever tell you that Jesus Christ was butt ugly, do a google search for ugly jews pics or ugly jesus pics. There is a Bible verse about that but i'm not going to share it right now because that would be breaking forum rules.
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    My belief in aliens is due to something i read in "a brief history of time" by Stephen Hawkings. He said if you roll a trillion sided dice (die) a trillion times you should expect to roll an 18 if your desire was to roll an 18.
    — christian2017
    So, you are playing long odds that aliens are real and relevant??? :joke:
    Gnomon

    lol.
  • Gnomon
    546
    Did any one ever tell you that Jesus Christ was butt uglychristian2017
    Yes. The original followers of Jesus were Jews. And Jesus rebuked a gentile woman : “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matt. 15:24) But Saul/Paul (not Jesus) was rejected by the Jews, so he took his message of the Messiah to the Greeks. Centuries later, Paul's gentile-friendly version of Jesus/Judaism was adopted by the Roman Emperor, who made it the Imperial Religion. This mashup of Roman polytheism and Jewish monotheism is what modern Christians have inherited. It has little to do with the actual mission of Jesus. :cool:

    mythical Roman Christ? My assumption is you mean a Catholic bastardization of who Jesus Christ is?christian2017
    Yes. The "suffering servant" prophesied by Isaiah "had no form or comeliness". But the same was said of the Greek "Jesus", Socrates. Plato emphasized that he was "butt ugly" in a society obsessed with beauty. It was intended to show the irony of a beautiful message in an ugly vessel. :nerd:
  • Gnomon
    546
    Some christians claim there is a close connection between free masonry and Kabbalah. My assumption is that is true.christian2017
    Yes. Both have roots in ancient Jewish and Egyptian mysticism. The article below even asserts that "Although the Christian Church Fathers of the first century were demonstratably Kabbalists, mystical or gnostic elements within the Church largely disappeared within the first three centuries, only to reappear as a Christian Cabala during the Renaissance." But that's a masonic tradition, hard to verify from non-masonic sources.

    Kabbalah & Freemasonry : https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/kabbalah.html
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    Did any one ever tell you that Jesus Christ was butt ugly
    — christian2017
    Yes. The original followers of Jesus were Jews. And Jesus rebuked a gentile woman : “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matt. 15:24) But Saul/Paul (not Jesus) was rejected by the Jews, so he took his message of the Messiah to the Greeks. Centuries later, Paul's gentile-friendly version of Jesus/Judaism was adopted by the Roman Emperor, who made it the Imperial Religion. This mashup of Roman polytheism and Jewish monotheism is what modern Christians have inherited. It has little to do with the actual mission of Jesus. :cool:

    mythical Roman Christ? My assumption is you mean a Catholic bastardization of who Jesus Christ is?
    — christian2017
    Yes. The "suffering servant" prophesied by Isaiah "had no form or comeliness". But the same was said of the Greek "Jesus", Socrates. Plato emphasized that he was "butt ugly" in a society obsessed with beauty. It was intended to show the irony of a beautiful message in an ugly vessel. :nerd:
    Gnomon

    Isaiah chapter 53 KJV says he was Butt ugly

    I disagree i think the writings of Paul were meant to be in the Bible. The Catholic church has always been atleast a little divided and many modern catholics to some extent reject Pauls books. I'm not going to go indepth in this right now. To say Paul doesn't belong in the Bible is a common thing said among a subset of christians.
  • Gnomon
    546
    I disagree i think the writings of Paul were meant to be in the Bible. The Catholic church has always been atleast a little divided and many modern catholics to some extent reject Pauls books. I'm not going to go indepth in this right now. To say Paul doesn't belong in the Bible is a common thing said among a subset of christians.christian2017
    Meant by whom? Obviously, the Catholic council at Nicea thought the letters of Paul should be in the Bible they were putting together. There was little dissension on that point, because Paul's reinterpretation of Jesus' mission was the dominant theme for Greek & Roman gentiles. If Paul's writings were omitted, the gentiles would have to become Jews in order to partake in the Messiah's mission to save Abraham's children. And the early followers of Jesus debated that very question. But Paul's expansion of the mission to include the gentile world won out. Paul's writings were approved by a mundane vote, not by divine mandate. :smile:
  • christian2017
    1.2k
    I disagree i think the writings of Paul were meant to be in the Bible. The Catholic church has always been atleast a little divided and many modern catholics to some extent reject Pauls books. I'm not going to go indepth in this right now. To say Paul doesn't belong in the Bible is a common thing said among a subset of christians.
    — christian2017
    Meant by whom? Obviously, the Catholic council at Nicea thought the letters of Paul should be in the Bible they were putting together. There was little dissension on that point, because Paul's reinterpretation of Jesus' mission was the dominant theme for Greek & Roman gentiles. If Paul's writings were omitted, the gentiles would have to become Jews in order to partake in the Messiah's mission to save Abraham's children. And the early followers of Jesus debated that very question. But Paul's expansion of the mission to include the gentile world won out. Paul's writings were approved by a mundane vote, not by divine mandate. :smile:
    Gnomon

    Perhaps. I'm not going to explain why i think that that is not true here. If you want to know my opinion on this send me a private message. I have heard what you said above before. No wrong answers.
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