• ZhouBoTong
    837
    In ancient Rome it was determined that political success could be attained by keeping the common people happy, which meant meeting their immediate demands, which meant "bread and circuses".

    Now, for the sake of argument, consider the following:

    Rome = Society
    Bread = Physical Needs (food & shelter for sure, healthcare and education are less immediate but could also be seen as requirements in this area - and responding to pandemics seems to fit here)
    Circuses = Beyond physical needs (entertainment)

    Currently, the coronavirus has stopped the majority of sporting events and has led to governments urging people to stay home. However, the "bread" still flows as global shipping and grocery stores are still in business.

    My question is, how long will people be happy to live with "bread" but no "circuses"? Let's assume we could keep the economy going well enough that everyone has their survival needs met (yes, yes, we Americans couldn't even do that before the coronavirus, but let's ignore that for now), but we continue to further restrict "non-essentials". If it is worth cancelling sports (not just empty stadiums, but fully cancelled), then movies, tv, and every other form of entertainment that requires people to come together for creation is similarly problematic. How long will people be happy watching netflix and hulu with no new content?

    I would think that after a year, people will demand circuses even at the risk of half the world dying. What does everyone else think?
  • Gregory
    825
    Half the world is not going to die from the corona virus.
  • Gregory
    825
    A quarter of the world is as danger of other diseases. Always have, always will. The problem is food supply and medicine supply. If that is ok, it won't be the end of a lot of people get a bad flu like experience. I ve seen someone set of fire before and I had no fear. I felt empathy and anger instead. It's a great time for hike and long walks. That's even the best exercise for this situation.
  • Gregory
    825
    It will also spread less when the weather warms up. God will that be great! I've been feeling hatred towards clouds for keeping out the sunshine
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    Circuses will be foregone and survival will continue by the population, as long as they realize that it is needed for survival. The moment the word gets out that the rich get access to more entertainment than they, all hell will break lose.

    "Let them eat cake" will become "let them watch football" when "they" (the poor saps) are completely fed up by ceaselessly watching Little Rascals and Brady Bunch reruns in their free time. There will be no football to watch; revolution will break out.
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    What I wrote in the previous post is pure psychology. In economic reality, the circus will come back to town the moment it gets a chance. Circuses, much like the movie industry and sports, are a particularly apt instrument to channel cash from the pockets of the everyday working stiff to the pockets of the rich and famous.
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    Another circus act is trading illicit circus drugs and dancing girls. I have been out of that entertainment venue for too long to have any real knowledge of its operative and functioning diversity and dispensity. But I am now curious how they work under the circumstances.

    In other words, (for the meeker in spirit) : do hooking and selling street drugs still continue under the new rules?
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    Half the world is not going to die from the corona virus.Gregory

    I would venture 98% of the world will die not of the Covid-19 infections.

    According to your estimate, Greg, 50% of all people alive today will never die.
  • Gregory
    825
    50% are immortal? I never implied that. Get it together
  • Gregory
    825
    Revolution might break out. I think more people will die from quarantine than from the Budweiser virus or whatever it's called. A bunch of grown ass people afraid of vomit and germs. I wish they could revoke the media's licenses and just have local stations do it. They killed people because they are pathetic and panicked. I'd show them no mercy
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    Half the world is not going to die from the corona virus.Gregory

    I believe you are correct. This thread was inspired by the coronavirus, but it is not about the coronavirus (although the coronavirus is a great current example to use for analysis).

    I used the "half" number to suggest that even if half the world's population would die, I am not thoroughly convinced that life will just go on without "circuses".
  • Gregory
    825
    There will be circuses only some appreciate, New forms of art
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    Circuses will be foregone and survival will continue by the population, as long as they realize that it is needed for survival.god must be atheist

    I have my doubts about this. People do many things that hinder their long-term survival (I don't mean species long term, I mean individually - people will take strides to ensure their survival TODAY, they will do very little to help their survival in 20 years).

    The moment the word gets out that the rich get access to more entertainment than they, all hell will break lose.god must be atheist

    I feel the cat is out of the bag for entertainment. We don't need to see rich people having what we don't, WE HAD IT last week. I am not convinced that the world will just go on more walks and have more sex and that will solve that. Undeveloped nations will have fewer problems as people are already used to similar entertainment conditions. Also, anyone who has to struggle to survive is less likely to feel bored.

    "Let them eat cake" will become "let them watch football" when "they" (the poor saps) are completely fed up by ceaselessly watching Little Rascals and Brady Bunch reruns in their free time. There will be no football to watch; revolution will break out.god must be atheist

    Hahaha. Nice comparison :grin:

    What I wrote in the previous post is pure psychology. In economic reality, the circus will come back to town the moment it gets a chance. Circuses, much like the movie industry and sports, are a particularly apt instrument to channel cash from the pockets of the everyday working stiff to the pockets of the rich and famous.god must be atheist

    I agree. But, when "it gets a chance" is very much the question right now...it seems the chance won't exist until the vaccine does, but if that is 1-2 years away, I am not sure the developed world will maintain order for that long.

    Another circus act is trading illicit circus drugs and dancing girls. I have been out of that entertainment venue for too long to have any real knowledge of its operative and functioning diversity and dispensity. But I am now curious how they work under the circumstances.

    In other words, (for the meeker in spirit) : do hooking and selling street drugs still continue under the new rules?
    god must be atheist

    I would definitely expect the black market circuses to grow significantly in the absence of state condoned circuses.
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    There will be circuses only some appreciate, New forms of artGregory

    Indeed. Unfortunately, they can only be viewed by the four people that can fit in the room at any time given appropriate social distancing.

    I am being snarky, but trying to point out that these new forms of art would need to entertain the masses, not just a few people.
  • Gregory
    825
    Stress spreads the virus and the flu. The summer will slow things down, so that's the time to go for walks, build the economy, and work on a vaccine
  • Gregory
    825
    And by summer i mean as soon as it gets warm
  • ssu
    2.3k
    I would think that after a year, people will demand circuses even at the risk of half the world dying. What does everyone else think?ZhouBoTong
    Nah.

    In truth it's called simply cabin fever: "Cabin fever refers to the distressing claustrophobic irritability or restlessness experienced when a person, or group, is stuck at an isolated location or in confined quarters for an extended period of time."

    Perhaps one problem will be that we will learn "social distancing". We'll adapt things just like with medical personnel (even before the pandemic) that you don't shake hands. Shaking hands can become something rude or an issue you don't do with strangers. And your personal distance kept is longer.
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    Nah.

    In truth it's called simply cabin fever: "Cabin fever refers to the distressing claustrophobic irritability or restlessness experienced when a person, or group, is stuck at an isolated location or in confined quarters for an extended period of time."
    ssu

    I can buy "cabin fever" for a couple weeks (not so much for a year or two). However, if I recall, the term "cabin fever" arose because people do some crazy ass shit in those conditions (like suicide or just walking out into a blizzard). So that seems to be a little support for my position.

    Perhaps one problem will be that we will learn "social distancing". We'll adapt things just like with medical personnel (even before the pandemic) that you don't shake hands. Shaking hands can become something rude or an issue you don't do with strangers. And your personal distance kept is longer.ssu

    So we just use personal distancing and stop shaking hands? When do we stop all the current shutdowns and JUST do that? Because now, many things are just closed. Are you suggesting the current quickness to shut everything down will go away?
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    What does everyone else think?ZhouBoTong

    Heavy question. Only possible TRUE answer would either attract 7 billion responses, or else one or more mind-readers.
  • Pfhorrest
    1.6k
    We live in a digital age. People don't have to get together in person to produce entertainment. Sure, some forms of entertainment are produced that way, but not all forms have to be anymore. Music can be created by independent musicians at separate locations performing over recordings of other musicians, and then compositing all the tracks together. Visual entertainment can be entirely computer-generated, even that requiring huge teams, because each individual can work separately and collaborate over the internet. Even things like sports could conceivably be substituted by e-sports, especially if the e-sport is playing a game that is a simulation of the old meatspace sport. (Maybe instead of watching people play NFL football, we'll watch our favorite players play themselves in Madden NFL 20 competitive livestreams.)

    I think the "circuses" part of this equation is really the least vulnerable. It's the "bread" part that's in jeopardy, as restaurants and other public venues shut down, tons of bottom-rung employees that staff those customer service positions get sent home or hours-reduced or laid off, and then they have less money to spent, leaving them not only without "bread" (figuratively and literally) for their own consumption, but without "bread" (figuratively) to spend, leaving other less-vulnerable businesses that could have continued operating just fine despite the pandemic suddenly with far fewer customers, so they have to reduce their staff as well, so even more people have less money to meet their own needs by patronizing other businesses who then have fewer customers so have to lay off more people and so on and so on.

    I just hope that the rich people at the top of the pyramid realize that that entire pyramid they're sitting on top of is going to crumble unless they do something about it, like implement a universal basic income (even temporarily!) so that people who have to stay home from work for public safety can keep spending money, not only to continue to meet their own needs, but so that other people who otherwise wouldn't have to stop working for public safety can keep their jobs, and keep meeting their needs by spending more money on other businesses and so on. Because if not, then all those businesses whose stocks you rich fuckers are living off of are going to go broke, all those mortgage and rent checks you're collecting will stop coming, and you'll end up the undisputed kings of a worthless pile of rubble filled with the carcasses us what used to be the working people. You guys have all the power, so it's your call: pay up to postpone collapse long enough for things to go back to normal, or lose everything along with everyone else.
  • IvoryBlackBishop
    276

    What on earth makes you think they'll be closed down indefinitely?
  • Pfhorrest
    1.6k
    Because we don’t know how long this total shutdown of society in response to the pandemic will last.
  • ssu
    2.3k
    . Are you suggesting the current quickness to shut everything down will go away?ZhouBoTong
    I'm not suggesting anything here and likely diseases won't go away. What I'm just saying that precautions can have some effect on our manners, which I think has also negative consequences.
  • Coben
    1.4k
    We got millions of virtual circuses.
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    What on earth makes you think they'll be closed down indefinitely?IvoryBlackBishop

    Because IF the closures are to "stop the spread" (that is what I seem to be hearing), it seems they can only be stopped when there is a vaccine, which is supposedly a year away...so we may need to consider the long term effects.
  • Pfhorrest
    1.6k
    From what I understand, it's not to stop the spread but to slow the spread. The big difference between COVDI19 and usual flu-like diseases is how quickly it spreads, which means that we can very suddenly end up with our medical system completely overwhelmed even by the small fraction of people who are seriously vulnerable to it, because they could all end up in critical need right away at the same time. If we slow down the spread of it, then we never cross that threshold of having too many people getting critically ill all at the same time, even if the same number of people end up having been sick overall by the end.

    So we don't need to wait until there's a vaccine before things can go back to normal, just until we get over the hump of the curve. Once the number of new cases starts going down (even if just because there are fewer people who haven't gotten sick yet left), we don't have to worry about slowing its increase anymore, and can go back to normal knowing that the medical system won't be overwhelmed by those who depend on it.
  • Gregory
    825
    We won't run out of hospital beds. Beds only for the very old and weak! Everyone else deal with it at home. It's like being drunk. You feel sick then you feel good
  • darthbarracuda
    3k
    a few riots and a couple deaths will please everyone just fine
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    So we don't need to wait until there's a vaccine before things can go back to normal, just until we get over the hump of the curve. Once the number of new cases starts going down (even if just because there are fewer people who haven't gotten sick yet left), we don't have to worry about slowing its increase anymore, and can go back to normal knowing that the medical system won't be overwhelmed by those who depend on it.Pfhorrest

    Well I was typing out a long response to your previous post in this thread, but this paragraph gets right to the stuff I have been thinking about a lot...so I won't bother you with the rest of my ramblings.

    "Getting over the hump" seems like it would take a good deal more than a year or two? When you say "even if just because there are fewer people who haven't gotten sick yet left"...won't it take years for most of earth's population to catch it? Especially since measures are being taken to slow the spread?
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    What I'm just saying that precautions can have some effect on our manners, which I think has also negative consequences.ssu

    Well that all makes sense. but to flip perspectives, as someone who is often uncomfortable in social situations and definitely has some personal space issues, "social distancing" just means I am no longer rude when I step back from a close talker :smile:
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    a few riots and a couple deaths will please everyone just finedarthbarracuda

    Seems inevitable if the next 6 months is similar to the last 6 days.
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