A person conditioned to swimming with Orcas may have less stress in that situation, but that isn’t because the situation was different, but because the body is. — NOS4A2

Point is that the conditioning is in part responsible for the level of stress. Conditioning can be external to the effected brain, can it not?

Point is that the conditioning is in part responsible for the level of stress. Conditioning can be external to the effected brain, can it not?

If you mean that one can train his brain by exposing himself to stressful environments, and that these environments are external, then yes.

You are simply underrating the true advances in human society just to make a point how things still suck. — ssu

No, the original point was that things suck now. Pointing out how they used to suck more is besides that point. I’m not disputing that they used to suck more, just saying that that’s irrelevant to the OP.

Point is that the conditioning is in part responsible for the level of stress. Conditioning can be external to the effected brain, can it not?
—praxis

If you mean that one can train his brain by exposing himself to stressful environments, and that these environments are external, then yes. — NOS4A2

:lol: but not yes if others (part of an environment) deliberately condition a brain?

but not yes if others (part of an environment) deliberately conditioned a brain?

I can’t make any sense of your question.

So back when we had real authoritarian regimes or feudalism, that wasn't stressful? — ssu

I am sure it was.

Have we not learned more from science than they knew back them?

Yes we have, so let's start with the best knowledge and ignore the past.

Regards
DL

GCB nothing to disagree with there. And to answer you rhetorical question, of course they should. — bert1

I do not quite see it as rhetorical, but then again, I am a Gnostic Christian and all question are pertinent in one way or another. If not just the information from those who answer.

Regards
DL

I’m pretty sure the body causes stress, not governments. — NOS4A2

Your body creates stress all on it's own without outside influence.

Ok.

You might want to watch that link again, for the first time.

Regards
DL

Stress itself begins and ends in biology. — NOS4A2

So the outside cause is not a part of what has the body create stress.

Watch that link again. is all I can say. If you cannot believe a genius on this issue ------ not to mention logic and reason then -------

Regards
DL

Being in a bad lot is not stressful. — god must be atheist

Does being in a good lot bring happiness and joy for life?

Why would the opposite not produce the opposite, which would be synonymous with stress?

Regards
DL

I think this issue has more to do with people adopting government's/nation's ideas of success, than governments trying to make their citizens miserable. — Tzeentch

The people are the government. People doing the bidding of their oligarch owners.

If your people's ideas of success is to have a government that imposes poverty, then your country is not living in in best moral way. Neither would mine.

The world is quite rich today, richer than it has even been, and to continue imposing poverty is quite immoral.

Regards
DL

Umm... you think those are caused by our rulers or governments? — ssu

I do to a large extent.

Have you noted, for instance the government food guide in the U.S. shows a really poor diet which is meat heavy and vegetable poor.

That is a part of why the death age rate in the U.S. is dropping while it is going up in most other countries.

Your overly expensive health care also cause a lot of stress and poor health but Americans do not seem to care about each other to do anything about that heavy source of stress.

That is your government killing Americans prematurely.

Regards
DL

So the outside cause is not a part of what has the body create stress.

Watch that link again. is all I can say. If you cannot believe a genius on this issue ------ not to mention logic and reason then -------

Regards
DL

My point is that stress is self-generated, that it begins in the brain. I am not saying that it is not a response to the environments or certain situations, nor was I pooh-poohing the video. I was probably nitpicking when I brought it up and for that I apologize.

(Not to say these folks wouldn't change if we all did - the times are harsh - the Gov ain't heartless) — xyzmix

A good reply but this quote., Hmm.

I don't think I would want a government with a heart.

I think I would prefer a government with a decent brain that would produce policies where, even if some new leader with a heart and no intelligence was elected, he would not have to change a thing.

Logic and reason have all they need to know that it is not profitable for a demography to have an unhealthy base.

Most of us have our hearts at the right place. It is the governments and their oligarch owners that need hearts, and a smartening up of their brains to right moral thinking.

Law is more important than heart as it, if well written, will have mercy built in and that should please every heart.

Regards
DL

It's not "simple biology", but rather cognitive revision. If a body discovers that there is no need to fear a situation that on the face of seemed threatening, then there will be little or no neurochemical stress response. It;s not a matter of conditioning, but of realization; if the situation had not been non-threatening form the beginning, then no elimination of the stress-response would be possible.

For instance, two people can be in the same environment, with one perceiving a threat while the other doesn’t. Only one will experience the stress. If they are both in the same environment and in the presence of the same environmental forces, why don’t they both experience stress? Because one perceived and interpreted a threat and one didn’t—because stress begins in the brain. — NOS4A2

Can you come up with a real world scenario because your two people are obviously not anywhere near the same. If one reacts to a threat, one is normal. You posit someone not reacting to a threat, or not recognizing it, and that indicates that one is a lot smarter than the other.

Apples and oranges to me.

Regards
DL

Have you noted, for instance the government food guide in the U.S. shows a really poor diet which is meat heavy and vegetable poor. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You have to show this until I believe it. Usual guides talk about a 20%-25% of meat and fish.

Here is an Australian example:


And the US one:



From my country, where they go for pyramids and even accepting that people eat cake:


I don't think there's a sinister ploy here.

My point is that stress is self-generated, that it begins in the brain. — NOS4A2

I just see poor grammar. As a Frenchman I try to be careful with English.

If self generated and harmful to us, why would a brain or mind subject itself to what is not good for it?

You seem to be aware of a cause from outside, yet maintain your self-generated view.

The brain does indeed produce the stress, but not without an ouside issue to pull the trigger of the brains self-creating stress.

A cat might create t's own stress, but to ignore that there was a G D dog after it is quite foolish.

Regards
DL

I can’t make any sense of your question. — NOS4A2

The point is simple, other minds (environment) can deliberately condition or manipulate the conditioning of a brain. In this way, it cannot be said that stress is self-generated or begins in the brain.

To use your example with the orcas, someone who believes that they’re swimming with dolphins could be tricked by someone else into believing that they’re swimming with orcas in order to induce stress in that person.

I don't think there's a sinister ploy here. — ssu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmo6lZcdkO0

This same guy had another project on the various U.S. government entities like the EPA, that are supported by some of the worse polluters on the planet.

I am not a conspiracy nut but some facts cannot be ignored.

Regards
DL

Can you come up with a real world scenario because your two people are obviously not anywhere near the same. If one reacts to a threat, one is normal. You posit someone not reacting to a threat, or not recognizing it, and that indicates that one is a lot smarter than the other.

Apples and oranges to me.

Regards
DL

Say you are being stalked by a lion while hiking peacefully through the savannah, but are unaware you are being hunted. If you were aware of the lion you would be stressed, but since you are unaware you are not. It isn’t the lion that triggers your fight-or-flight responses; it is the perception and interpretation of a threat that does so. Therefor the cause of the stress response is the perception and interpretation of a threat which then triggers a cascade of biological processes we call stress.

The stress response begins in the brain (see illustration). When someone confronts an oncoming car or other danger, the eyes or ears (or both) send the information to the amygdala, an area of the brain that contributes to emotional processing. The amygdala interprets the images and sounds. When it perceives danger, it instantly sends a distress signal to the hypothalamus.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/understanding-the-stress-response

If self generated and harmful to us, why would a brain or mind subject itself to what is not good for it?

Stress isn’t always harmful. Quite often it is lifesaving.

You seem to be aware of a cause from outside, yet maintain your self-generated view.

The brain does indeed produce the stress, but not without an ouside issue to pull the trigger of the brains self-creating stress.

A cat might create t's own stress, but to ignore that there was a G D dog after it is quite foolish.

People can stress by thought alone, even while in the least stressful of environments. So “outside triggers” aren’t necessarily a given.

People can stress by thought alone, even while in the least stressful of environments. So “outside triggers” aren’t necessarily a given. — NOS4A2

They are stressing from their own thought, no argument, but the though is of a real or imagined issue from outside the brain. Take that trigger away, and your stress will never come.

If an outside trigger is not a given, give one example of self-induced stress that does not have one, other than stressing on if our insides are working well or not.

Regards
DL

I am not a conspiracy nut but some facts cannot be ignored. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

That we eat more and exercise less isn't a government program. That Coca-cola or the tobacco industry try fighting regulations with their own "facts" is very much an American thing, but you have to still make the separation between corporations and the public sector. Where you can make the difference is for example in the meals given in schools. Even if I was a child back then, when I came to the US to the 2nd Grade, I could notice that the food was rubbish compared to what it was like in my home country. The amount of sugar was surprising even to a kid. Yet I wouldn't go so far to call it an intentional policy to get people fat.

I am not a conspiracy nut but some facts cannot be ignored. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Well, I would say that societal changes that happen when people get more prosperous and eat more meat than before isn't only because of the US. But Americans do have this urge to think they are causing everything bad in the World. It isn't so. You aren't SO important.

You aren't SO important. — ssu

I hope that was a royal you as I am not an American, thank all the god.

I am a Canadian.

I see the older Americans as moral and contributing a hell of a lot to democracy.

The new Americans are a cowed and slaved people who fear their governments instead of the government fearing the people.

Canadian are about 75 25 with the 25 fearing the government.

That may be why our government does not lie nearly as much to us as the American government lies to it's coed people.

I liked and miss the older styled American's. Cowards I do not like.

I wish Americans would find their balls.

Regards
DL

but you have to still make the separation between corporations and the public sector. — ssu

Why, when the corporate heads own your government and writes it's legislation for it?

We all live in oligarchies and they, our masters, would have it no other way.

Regards
DL

I am a Canadian. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You do know you are an American. Would North American be better?

Why, when the corporate heads own your government and writes it's legislation for it? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Ownership and having influence over decisions are two different things. Just as there is a difference between Canada and the US compared to Saudi-Arabia or North Korea.

You do know you are an American. Would North American be better? — ssu

Yes. In English, “America” refers to the United States. North America and South America are not parts of “America”, but parts of “the Americas”.

In Spanish and probably other languages it’s different. IIRC English is bit your mother tongue so maybe it’s different in your language too.

The rich control the governments — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Governments impose poverty and it’s stresses with their regressive and immoral tax control policies. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Stress reduces our life expectancy and causes misery and hardship for the vast majority of us. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

What's new in all this? However, I suggest a rethink on the claim that stress is killing the poor. To my reckoning, it's not stress but disease, the infectious kind, that's the enemy of the poor. Stress seems to by and large attack the rich and relatively well to do.

No, stress is generally a worse problem for the poor.

https://www.verywellmind.com/relationship-between-job-stress-and-income-level-3145085
https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/PathwaysWinter11_Evans.pdf

Now higher income people may express more disatisfaction and stress than for example middle class people. But that's what they express, something they feel entitled to express and relating to their expectations. And I do believe they are stressed. But there are different kinds of stress, and shortcomes on expectations are a different kind of stress compared to not knowing if you are going to manage to pay the next power bill, etc.

Stress is defined as psychological strain but note that it is always induced; in other words stress is a reaction to a perturbation in a person's life. If we were to try and identify these "perturbations" in the lives of the unfortunate poor, the most common would be diseases and these diseases, by and large, are untreated because the poor can't afford them, eventually leading to death. Yes there's stress and even if stress could kill an epidemiologist would be hard pressed to find a solution for the confounding factor of diseases. The mistake here is similar to thinking the stress brought on by cancer killed the patient rather than the cancer itself.

The rich can afford the best treatments and the correlation between stress and death is therefore stronger; it's not diseases, but the stress that kills them.