" Some might consider" is not an argument — Gregory

It is when you make it one. You said life support is not nature. Neither is pulling the plug on life support, or pulling the trigger on a gun. Since you have entirely failed to draw a distinction with a relevant difference, I tried to throw you a life line with the human nature option, but you left yourself adrift, floundering with your lack of reason.

I won't repeat myself dude. I thought you could put the pieces together from all the pieces I GAVE YOU but you can't. I'm not going to spend all day talking to you about existential realities

I won't repeat myself dude. — Gregory

Thank God! Now, try to answer the question: what is the difference between pulling the plug and pulling the trigger?

It's not about logic

It's not about logic — Gregory

Great. I find a flaw in the foundation of logic, so I'm good with an illogical distinction. I just beg you, please make it. What is the relevant difference between triggers and plugs? If you were to just admit you find sanctity of life preeminent in the case of pre-born babies or whatever, I never would have jumped in. That's your bag and I'm not engaging on that. I'm just curious how you see a relevant difference between plugs and triggers.

It's not about logic

Some things in life can only be explained so far

I've also said they could in a situation pull the plug, so to speak, on a frozen embryo. But you still posted that I put their life in preference. Hmm

Some things in life can only be explained so far — Gregory

True. You could lead with that. :up:

Have a nice day

There a difference between allowing to die and killing. The doctors can work out how they want to do this in a human way very easily — Gregory

Is thawing out embryos allowing them to die or is it killing?

*We are never forced to do an evil* so it all depends of how it's done

Respectfully putting them somewhere to die is not the same as stepping on them

Respectfully putting them somewhere to die is not the same as stepping on them — Gregory

So is thawing out the embryos (and doing nothing else) equivalent to

A) Respectfully putting them somewhere to die , OR
B) Stepping on them

A

Pro-choice people get strangely confused by respect for life, because they are obsessed with a mother's "right" to deny her motherhood

to deny her motherhood — Gregory

The possessive pronoun is right; it's hers. Consider an absurd case - these sometimes useful to highlight certain points - A man with a gun is going to shoot you. But you have a gun with which to defend yourself. Do you throw down the gun and say "Shoot me!" Your reasoning being that it is wrong to kill? But this argument is not so bizarre; it being just a florid re-write of a portion of Roe v. Wade. Go read it. It's neither long nor especially difficult.

Abortion is self-defense? No. Do you want homework on this?

it's hers — tim wood

As in "her child"

Why should I be schooled in morality by someone who doesn't know what the word morality means? I've been exchanging words with people who don't have a soul in their breasts so there is no real communication get through to them. This is obvious. Have you guys ever debated someone who firmly believes slavery of black people is good? Try it someday. Find some educated in KKK propaganda. It might be an eye opener. It's not about what you CAN say, it's about what is right

I read Roe vs Wade awhile ago. Everyone educated in the subject knows it's arguments, none of which are strong. If there is something specific in it you want me to recall then type out a brief paragraph on it

Pro-choice people get strangely confused by respect for life, because they are obsessed with a mother's "right" to deny her motherhood — Gregory

They are obsessed with her life.

Pregnant mothers intuitively feel their child as their own offspring while pregnant. There is also such a thing as "fetal-maternal microchimerism" where mothers don't only affect the child growth but the fetus keeps the mother healthier throughout the pregnancy. Pro-choicer Tim Wood above says that abortion is self defense, as if the child is invading the mother. This is a corrupt way of looking at it

They are obsessed with her life. — James Riley

or her body

Feminists have hurt many women with their beliefs. They present themselves as liberated bodies which men often find attractive. Women find out later in life however that they are not men and that having many partners and/or abortions have made them, at mid-age, unattractive to many men, especially as a marriage partner. Studies have some that women are much more attracted to men feminist consider sexist, and so the whole feminist ideology is a confused attempt to force their will on reality

or her body — Gregory

That sounds like someone who's obsessed with sex. Pro-abortion folks just understand the difference between life and quality of life. And many (including men) are offended by the notion of pro-life people concerning themselves with what goes on inside the body. And they really get offended when the pro-life people turn to the state to stick it's nose in where it has no interest except the votes of pro-life people.

Pregnant mothers intuitively feel their child as their own offspring while pregnant. There is also such a thing as "fetal-maternal microchimerism" where mothers don't only affect the child growth but the fetus keeps the mother healthier throughout the pregnancy. — Gregory

I can stipulate to that being true in some cases. Where it is true, that just goes to prove that the decision to kill does not come lightly, on some flip version of abortion as birth control. Pro-lifers can't have it both ways.

Where it is not true, the woman doesn't feel that way, obviously, or she wouldn't be killing the baby.

Regardless, it's not for you, or the state, to make that call for them.

So is thawing out the embryos (and doing nothing else) equivalent to respectfully putting it somewhere to die. OK, an answer.

Next question, what is the moral difference between taking a medication that prevents a blastocyst from embedding in a woman's uterus and thawing out a frozen embryo and letting it die?

In the former, the woman is simply putting the blastocyst somewhere to die.

Why is the second scenario morally acceptable, but the first is murder?

Actually it is up to men to control woman in some ways because women can't be happy unless they are controlled by men in some way

Youre making pregnancy into a cyst situation which is retarded, stupid, divorced from reality, creepy, and many other predications