• ssu
    2.4k
    Some of the preparations made is New York State as the state has passed the infection numbers of France:

    New York state has asked the Federal Emergency Management Agency for help setting up emergency morgues as the death toll from the coronavirus strains hospitals and mortuaries. - officials who spoke to Politico, which first reported the states’ requests, said the city’s (NYC) morgues were not yet close to capacity.
  • Echarmion
    1.2k
    Holy shit, that's horrendous. I assume they're just stacking them up in tents. Could NATO help?frank

    Not unless NATO has a bunch of respirators lying around somewhere. The issue is specialised equipment and medical personnel. And what makes it worse is that the neighboring countries cannot afford to help (some token gestures have been made) since they need to husband their resources to avoid the same fate.
  • Nobeernolife
    532
    Stimulus deal bars Trump's businesses from Treasury Department loans

    @Nobeernolife

    Damn, I was all geared up to get deranged about this.
    praxis


    No, you should get wet in your pants about this, Orangeman´s family takes isnt this just what you have been cackling for?

    I am surprised, but then again not. This is not the Biden or Clinton clan we are talking about here.
  • frank
    4.5k
    Not unless NATO has a bunch of respirators lying around somewhere. The issue is specialised equipment and medical personnel. And what makes it worse is that the neighboring countries cannot afford to help (some token gestures have been made) since they need to husband their resources to avoid the same fate.Echarmion

    So the world is going to stand around and let this happen to Italy?

    Wow.
  • Benkei
    2.7k
    I'm not familiar enough with the NATO rules on assistance to say one way or the other but it's probably moot: NATO members are in trouble themselves.
  • Benkei
    2.7k
    What's up with the case reporting in the US? Only 7 deaths today? How is this possible?
  • frank
    4.5k
    The best ventilators in the world are made in Germany. I'm assuming they're trying to figure out how to ramp up.
  • Echarmion
    1.2k
    So the world is going to stand around and let this happen to Italy?

    Wow.
    frank

    Well they have been for the last two weeks. Or rather most of the world. China did send equipment and advisors.

    Spain is now in pretty much the same situation. And one shudders to think what will happen in Greece's overcrowded refugee camps, where most of the personnel has already left for fear of what is to come.
  • boethius
    514
    Not unless NATO has a bunch of respirators lying around somewhere. The issue is specialised equipment and medical personnel. And what makes it worse is that the neighboring countries cannot afford to help (some token gestures have been made) since they need to husband their resources to avoid the same fate.Echarmion

    Also a big problem that needs to be added to the specialized skills needed to keep someone alive on a respirator, is a large majority of respirator patients have other health conditions which need to be treated too. There are really a lot of limiting factors to trying to scale adequate care when the details start getting looked at.

    Of course, that health workers don't even have enough masks is just insane, and that part of the problem could have easily been solved. What I find bizarre is that stocks of masks weren't renewed after SARS-1 even in places that tapped into their mask-stock. The utility of masks seems to be at the top of "what did we learn" lest from the SARS-1 experience.
  • frank
    4.5k
    Spain is now in pretty much the same situation. And one shudders to think what will happen in Greece's overcrowded refugee camps, where most of the personnel has already left for fear of what is to come.Echarmion

    Thanks for the info. It's awful.
  • NOS4A2
    2.9k


    No hospital has promised to heal anyone. In the case of COVID-19, if your immune system doesn't heal you, you will die. All the hospital can do is support you until your immune system does its thing.

    Very true. I’m considering the policies of lawmakers and politicians. I think the Hippocratic oath suffices where medical practice is concerned.
  • praxis
    2k
    No, you should get wet in your pants about this, Orangeman´s family takes isnt this just what you have been cackling for?Nobeernolife

    Apparently you can't read or write well.
  • Nobeernolife
    532
    Which is totally crazy. Economic recession isn't the same as an all out nuclear strike in the US. Recession is a time when wealth changes hands and people are unemployed. And economic growth starts when everybody is all doom and gloom.ssu

    No, it is not crazy. Economic activity is necessary for people to live.... we can not go back to a hunter gatherer society. I think you are spoiled by having always a shop with shelves full of food stuffs nearby.... there are places where that is not the case.
  • frank
    4.5k
    Very true. I’m considering the policies of lawmakers and politicians.NOS4A2

    So we're trying to make a big deal out of some weird comments made by the governor of Texas? That's not a productive use of your time.
  • Punshhh
    1.5k
    So the world is going to stand around and let this happen to Italy?

    Wow.
    It's worse in Spain and a lot worse in Iran. I was listening to an epidemiologist earlier who had been estimating the extent of the epidemic in Iran. He concluded that it was actually a couple of magnitudes higher than they are letting on. Somewhere between 700,000 and 7 million cases. Apparently they have been observed digging massive trenches around the city at the epicentre, by satellite.
  • Hanover
    5.3k
    I'm really not following the argument that Trump will soon lift the lock downs, considering he's not ordered any as far as I can tell. The lock downs I am aware of where I live were issued by the state and local governments, and honestly, they started prior to that due to social media and peer pressure. I guess maybe there were some federally ordered things, like closing airports and borders, but the airports were clearing out long before it was mandated. Domestic travel is open, but the cross country flights for $50 or less tell the tale that nobody is looking to the government for direction for what they ought to do. The counties closed the schools and city closed the beer fest. I just can't imagine that if the local school board ordered kids back to school they'd survive the blow back. Exactly which entertainer is going to pack out an arena and just see what happens?
  • frank
    4.5k
    Apparently they have been observed digging massive trenches around the city at the epicentre, by satellite.Punshhh

    I'm so looking forward to this playing out in my backyard. Holy fuck.
  • frank
    4.5k
    I'm realizing that they don't have anything like a president over all of Europe. They don't understand what they're criticizing.
  • Baden
    9.6k
    Or you think that Trump will order the lifting the 'lock downs' or what?ssu

    I don't think he actually can as @Hanover indicated. It would be up to state officials. But he undermines those of them who want to be responsible and emboldens others who don't. Not to mention the message it sends to the public. What appals me most is the thinking behind it.
  • Hanover
    5.3k
    Somewhere between 700,000 and 7 million cases.Punshhh

    Which is just another way of saying they have no idea. My guess is that you have somewhere between $0 and $6.3 million dollars in your checking account, which is that same 6,300,000 range.
  • Benkei
    2.7k
    My neighbour is an anithesist and had a 2 week crash course for IC procedures and machines. He's also build a bespoke respiratory system using face covering snorkling gear. 15 EUR a piece. He's still waiting for the storm in one of the largest hospitals in the Netherlands.
  • frank
    4.5k
    also build a bespoke respiratory system using face covering snorkling gear. 15 EUR a piece.Benkei

    For patients or healthcare workers?
  • ChatteringMonkey
    388


    Thank you for deeming it worthy your time to actually argue the point!

    And I mostly agree with you, the economy should be there in the service of the rest of society and not the other way around.

    The trouble I have with this is that it's not always clear how you would separate out the two opposing views from each other when it comes to making concrete decisions relating to the economy. In case of early Trump and Johnson reactions to the crisis, they probably did have the economy as monetary value for a certain class in mind rather than the interests of the society at large. We know their ideologies....

    But more generally, everything seems so tied together that it seems hard to separate out an economy in service of the public and an economy as a moneymaking machine for the rich. Suppose the stockmarket is in danger of crashing. One might say, that's fine, it's just a bunch of traders, banks and the rich loosing out on making more money, who cares... but wouldn't this also have consequences for the rest of the economy so that in the end it has real consequences for the general public and the poor? And I understand that this is a 'designflaw' in the system to put it euphemistically, and that it could and should be otherwise in a number of ways... but until it is actually otherwise, it doesn't really matter right, because it still will have real consequences that are bad for the general public.

    And I don't doubt that politicians want to tell this story to keep people in line and use it knowingly for that purpose. But at the same time I don't think the story is completely made up out of whole cloth either. So yeah, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information.
  • Janus
    8.9k
    Under what value system must I adhere to believe that flourishing ecosystems are a good thing to the extent they don't in some way benefit humankindHanover

    You're an idiot if you think degraded ecosystems could benefit humankind other than in the most superficial, short-term ways.
  • ssu
    2.4k
    No, it is not crazy. Economic activity is necessary for people to live.... we can not go back to a hunter gatherer society.Nobeernolife
    And with this recession you won't go back to a hunter gatherer society.

    Remember the financial crisis of 2008? Some call it the "Great Recession". Yeah, might have something even worse now. But that surely isn't the end of the World, just as isn't this pandemic.

    I remember two really bad ones here, the 1990's recession and the 2008-2009 crisis, which really wasn't so bad here at all. When the depression first hit I was in the army, and afterwards there were really now jobs around. Before going to the army and just graduated from school I could pick from a multitude of jobs the place I wanted to go, literally. Afterwards I wondered why people had bitched so much about unemployment.

    Anyway, this crisis is a truly external recession. Hence if there was a truly free market mechanism would be used and not socialism for the rich and connected, then this could be over too in a very short while. Like in a couple of years. But as the system is geared to serve the extremely rich, I'm not so sure how badly they f*k up the economy this time.

    I think you are spoiled by having always a shop with shelves full of food stuffs nearby.... there are places where that is not the case.Nobeernolife
    So you live in Venezuela?

    I remember when I visited the Soviet Union in the final year of it's existence. I stayed with a family and they were horrified as shortages even bread started just then when I was there. They tried to keep a happy face, but they truly feared something like a civil war would erupt (like happened in Yugoslavia). Luckily that didn't happen, but with the war in Ukraine now we see just how close the situation was back then for a new Russian tragedy.
  • Punshhh
    1.5k
    Which is just another way of saying they have no idea.
    Iran has no idea.
  • ssu
    2.4k
    I'm not familiar enough with the NATO rules on assistance to say one way or the other but it's probably moot: NATO members are in trouble themselves.Benkei
    And I guess sending troops from one country to help in the worst hit pandemic area and then them coming home would be like... how the Spanish Flu spread.

    If there's one thing that really ought to change from this, it's the attitude against strategic reserves. They are seen as a waste of money. If you can produce the JOT (just on time) then your efficient. You save money. And now that the Health Care Systems have done this efficiency thing, we pay the price. Every nation is geared up for normal times, for normal consumption of material.

    This is the one thing we ought to truly change.
  • Janus
    8.9k
    Some worthy suggestions here :
  • NOS4A2
    2.9k
    Not too much info, but Interesting approach out of the UK.

    UK coronavirus home testing to be made available to millions

    Millions of 15-minute home coronavirus tests are set to be available on the high street or for Amazon delivery to people self-isolating, according to Public Health England (PHE), in a move that could restore many people’s lives to a semblance of pre-lockdown normality.

    Prof Sharon Peacock, the director of the national infection service at PHE, told MPs on the science and technology committee that mass testing in the UK would be possible within days, saying evaluation of the fingerprick tests should be completed this week. The government later took a more cautious line, saying that the tests would not be available so quickly.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/uk-coronavirus-mass-home-testing-to-be-made-available-within-days
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