They are literally premised on fear and ignorance — NOS4A2

The basis of the entire pandemic response.

Agreed. The vast majority of people do things that have inherent risk in them, because they choose to, for whatever personal reasons. What I find interesting is that these same people cannot seem to tolerate this behaviour in others, despite doing it themselves. Hypocrisy anyone?

The basis of the entire pandemic response.

Inverted or turnkey totalitarianism in a nutshell.

Sadly most people are not only unwilling to fight for their freedom, they offer it up willingly for the perception of safety.

Disturbingly similar to V for Vendetta...Guy forks mask anyone?

Sadly most people are not only unwilling to fight for their freedom, they offer it up willingly for the perception of safety. — Book273

Evolution strikes again

Disturbingly similar to V for Vendetta...Guy forks mask anyone? — Book273

Getting mixed messages... Wasn't the mask-wearer the hero fighting for freedom?

Yep, he was. However...Virus, general panic, government restrictions, martial law, curfews, state sponsored propaganda, single message television constantly reminding people how unsafe they would be without the restrictions. I see huge similarities...but less classical music through the public address systems.

Yep, he was. — Book273

So you're advocating mask-wearing? Cool.

Government : "No one can get you if you are in this strong, safe metal barred safe zone. And there is all this fresh air. See? Safe and secure, and no one can get you."

Joe Public : " Wow, look at that! There's even room for my kids. Sign us up!"

That kind of mask, sure.

Hell I support wearing a mask for valid reasons. I wear an N95 and goggles when I suction any patient on a ventilator, because it is appropriate to do so at the time. I wear full face covering and particulate filtration when I work in old attics because of all the unknown things that could be up there and the insulation particles in the eyes suck ass. I wear full Bunker Gear and SCBA when I am actively fighting a fire. And I wear a full Hazmat suit when I am in a hazmat situation. All masks, all PPE, all when appropriate. I wear none of that shit when I go shopping, because it isn't necessary.

Currently I have a useless piece of crap mask on my face because I am at work and I will be fired if I don't. Does it protect me? No. Does it protect my patients? No. Does it make my employer appear to be doing something regarding the pandemic? Only to the uninformed, but yes, it has positive optic value. One benefit it does have is that I am mostly protected from halitosis, which is a bit of a problem in healthcare, although good gum will usually cover all but the nastiest patient's halitosis.

I wish I could wear a Guy Fawkes mask at work! That would be a hoot.

Currently I have a useless piece of crap mask on my face — Book273

Why not get a good one?

Does it protect me? No. Does it protect my patients? No. — Book273

Are you wearing it wrong, or is it just the crapness of the mask? A good mask, worn correctly, will reduce your aerosol spray into, and from, your environment, which is the principle mode of transmission. What worries me is that you are supposed to take care of patients and don't know this.

There's a nutcase nurse living opposite us who also bangs on like this. Personally, I think you *should* stick to your guns, go mask-free, get fired, and thus reduce the liability you pose to others.

I wish I could wear a Guy Forks mask — Book273

It's Guy Fawkes. Forks are for eating food with.

Are you wearing it wrong, or is it just the crapness of the mask? A good mask, worn correctly, will reduce your aerosol spray into, and from, your environment, which is the principle mode of transmission. What worries me is that you are supposed to take care of patients and don't know this — Kenosha Kid

Crappy mask worn right. I am not allowed to wear the proper mask. I do in fact know my business, however, just because I know what is what does not mean that I am supplied with, or allowed to use, the proper PPE. Welcome to modern healthcare. My area is just now accepting that this thing "could be airborne". Seriously, that was announce early last week. Now they are reconsidering their masks. Only 20 months late.

There's a nutcase nurse living opposite us who also bangs on like this. — Kenosha Kid

Maybe listen closely to what they are saying, and before assuming they are a nutcase, consider the implications if they are in fact being entirely accurate. Scary stuff.

reduce the liability you pose to others — Kenosha Kid

Seriously, do your research. I pose no more threat to others than I ever did. You could sit across the table from someone with active Covid for a nice 2 hour romantic dinner and your chances of catching Covid increases by a whopping 5%. Not a 5% chance of catching covid, just 5% greater than before. Factor in that 80% of the population won't even know that they had (or have) the virus and the end result barely registers on the attention scale.

It's Guy Fawkes — Kenosha Kid

yep, it is. Thanks for reminding me.

Crappy mask worn right. I am not allowed to wear the proper mask. I do in fact know my business, however, just because I know what is what does not mean that I am supplied with, or allowed to use, the proper PPE. Welcome to modern healthcare. — Book273

So your real qualm isn't with mandates but the quality of the PPE provided to you. It's odd, isn't it, that a slip-up like that can make you look like one of the irrational masses squealing about how consideration for the health and lives of others -- your business, I gather -- is a violation of your freedom to... cause the deaths and ill health of others, I suppose.

Maybe listen closely to what they are saying, and before assuming they are a nutcase, consider the implications if they are in fact being entirely accurate. Scary stuff. — Book273

Oh, she very helpfully posts a huge newsletter through my letter box, a full tabloid newspaper's worth. It's all paranoid conspiracy theories drawn from the bowels of Reddit and Fox News. Scary stuff indeed.

Seriously, do your research. I pose no more threat to others than I ever did. You could sit across the table from someone with active Covid for a nice 2 hour romantic dinner and your chances of catching Covid increases by a whopping 5%. Not a 5% chance of catching covid, just 5% greater than before. Factor in that 80% of the population won't even know that they had (or have) the virus and the end result barely registers on the attention scale. — Book273

Sounds like you do your own research. My partner had covid, really bad. I slept with her every night. Truth told, there was grown up stuff happening too in the early days when we thought it was just a cold. I was fine. So I guess by your logic, everyone is fine, right? That I can sleep with someone with covid and not get it is 100% proof that everyone who encounters someone with covid won't catch it, right?

Like I said, get yourself fired. You're a liability. I think some people just don't get probability theory and you're one of them, which is a problem when your job is to minimise the probability of people contracting a virus. You clearly don't understand how it spreads, in fact the logical conclusion of your reasoning is that covid doesn't exist at all, despite millions of people dying from it. Or was that fake news?

So your real qualm isn't with mandates but the quality of the PPE provided to you — Kenosha Kid

No, my main qualm is with mandates. My minor issue is that we have crap quality stuff to work with. A napkin is a useful as my mask.

Covid is real. And Anthrax exists in the soil around us. Both are true, and verifiable if one wants to look. Both illicit the same level of concern in me. The global covid response is a concern, but more annoying than crippling. The media's constant yammering about it is annoying, but I can turn that crap off, so no worries there. Eventually work will insist on something that I will draw the line at, then I will walk away and do something else. The funny part is, healthcare workers are resigning at unprecedented rates, attributed to "covid burn out", but most of the people I know that left the industry did it because they were tired of the shit being pushed by the employers about covid and the covid response. I do not know one that left because of Covid itself. But no one covers that, we are all leaving due to covid.

AS for millions dying of covid. Yes, millions died of covid. And TB, and the flu (less since covid) and all sorts of other shit. It's what people do, they die. Currently the waitlist to die is at 8+ billion.

Freedom is a state of mind. -- Americanism 101

Sure. However once you are no longer able to work unless you comply, you cannot attend a gym unless you comply, nor a swimming pool, nor travel to other countries, nor other provinces, you cannot board a plane unless you comply...all of that tends to remind one that they are indeed free, until someone decides they aren't.

We are all free to do anything we are allowed to do. Take that however you will.

Eventually work will insist on something that I will draw the line at, then I will walk away and do something else. — Book273

All's well that ends well.

Yes. When we all go home and the healthcare system grinds to a halt, remind yourself of that.

Well, it might well grind to a halt. In fact, I think it _is_ grinding to a halt. But not because of a heroic uprising against measures to keep staff and patients safe.

I agree, there are no heroic measures in place to keep staff and patients safe. Healthcare was already very broken before 2019, at least in my country. I hope it collapses and someone has the leadership and spine to rebuild it more functionally.

Different day in 1930, same bullshit 90 years later:

Everyone's screwed.
Those who don't learn from history, repeating the mistakes.
And those who watch them. — paraphrasing George Santayana and David Linwood

Really?

"'Cos smallpox is a virus and SARS-cov2 is a virus, everything must be the same."

What naïve historicism.

What fear and panic is that?
Elsewhere I once asked a denier what they'd expect in case of an outbreak.
Their response was looting, riots, chaos, violence, ...
According to them, that's they'd picked up, read, been told, figured, ...
Someone had lost contact with the ground.
There's no particular panic, and the only supposed "fear-mongering" has come from some folk rehashing worst-case scenarios.
If someone is afraid out there, then that's understandable enough, and that's where that ends.
In the two places I call home (different continents), people just follow protocols and go on about their day. :shrug:

Nah , not the same, but the bullshit is.

not the same, but the bullshit is. — jorndoe

Not in any way that actually matters. The effect of social media, the growing distrust of scientific institutions, the enormous lobbying power of corporations, the monetisation of public health, the increasing healthcare costs of an ageing population, the vulnerability from current and future biotechnology, increasing wealth inequality and consequent health inequality...

Not even the bullshit is the same.

But it makes a nice chant for those who want to sweep all the corruption, and systemic malfeasance under the rug of "Oh look at what the looney anti-vaxxers are saying!"

Distraction-based politics at it's best, sad to see so many acting as its ardent spokespeople.

Where's the thread on the unforgivable government failure to provide equitable healthcare?
Where's the thread on the criminal lack of community health facilities that made so many (mainly minorities) at risk?
Where's the thread on the heartless exploitation of government institutions which allowed the obesity crisis which made so many so vulnerable to this disease?
Where's the thread on the treadmill of lobbying, corporate positions and government agencies which erodes any trust people might have had in those institutions to a point where they're basically useless?
Where's the thread on the fucking genocide the pharmaceutical companies are enacting by their refusal to release patents for the drugs we fucking paid for?

...nowhere. Just endless cheap shots at a handful of people, through no fault of their own, too stupid to properly understand what is actually an extremely complicated situation.

If people are falling for misinformation, then stop whining about them and do something to make the information more convincing.

Maybe you missed it, , the same bullshit is definitely still present 90 years on.
Right, yeah, the inequalities are problematic and ought be addressed.
But do go on about your blanket "Big Pharma" hatred. :) (don't think anyone are cheering them on for the scandals)

Maybe you missed it, ↪Isaac
, the same bullshit is definitely still present 90 years on. — jorndoe

What I 'missed' was any actual argument for your case beyond bland assertion.

Right, yeah, the inequalities are problematic and ought be addressed. — jorndoe

Go on then...

But do go on about your blanket "Big Pharma" hatred. :) (don't think anyone are cheering them on for the scandals) — jorndoe

Admitting the limits of our knowledge and acknowledging the weakness in the system are essential stages in gaining people's trust.

Acting like a bunch of fucking omniscient tyrants dogmatically simpering over their quasi-religious devotion to pharmacology is not.

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/big-pharma-pfizer-moderna-astrazeneca-profiteering-covid-vaccine

(see the first image for example)