• unenlightened
    5.1k
    But Trumplestiltskin can spin straw into gold.
  • darthbarracuda
    3k
    I was thinking that even after we get a vaccine (if we get a vaccine), it might be a good idea to continue to wear a mask when in indoor public areas, as a courtesy to other people. Like how you wash your hands after using the restroom, or cough into your sleeve. It's easy enough to wear a mask, and doing so could prevent other people from getting sick. This could become part of expected basic hygiene.

    I imagine if pathogens were visible to the naked eye, we would all be more concerned about not spreading them. But because they are microscopic and invisible, we don't worry - out of sight, out of mind.
  • schopenhauer1
    4.5k
    Oh sorry, forgot to mention that another major reason for antinatalism is coronavirus. Bring people into the world expose them to pandemics. Great job people. But right, who would have expected a pandemic? I mean epidemics are unprecedented in human history :roll:. Yeah, what's a little contagion right? Not that bad..

    Just keep downplaying all the negatives people. Keep Pollyannaising life. It's all worth it to create suffering, harm, negative, pain on behalf of another person. It's not that bad.. Everything works out.. I mean parents have to do their duty for themselves, their legacy, the country, humanity. Overlook, downplay, shrug your shoulders at the costs.. Play with other people's lives because you want to play a role.
  • Benkei
    3.4k
    Please don't turn this in another anti-natalism thread.
  • schopenhauer1
    4.5k

    It already was. The clearness of the connection of a pandemic and not exposing people to it is too easy. And c'mon, this is an obvious point.
  • Benkei
    3.4k
    We already dealt with it pages ago. No need to repeat it.
  • schopenhauer1
    4.5k

    Wish that could be said about exposing people to things like viruses and replace "pages" with "years".
  • ssu
    3.2k
    Please don't turn this in another anti-natalism thread.Benkei

    Seems like interest in the Corona-virus is disappearing in this forum.
  • creativesoul
    8.8k
    Do countries not share our look at each others data or something? The US has just ok'ed convalescent plasma as a treatment. I think it's almost 2 months ago (edit: July 6) that this has proved to be so-so in the Netherlands because sick people make the antibodies anyway so injecting more of them via plasma doesn't improve recovery.Benkei

    Trump's thumb has been on the response to covid-19. The entire system has forsaken all the knowledge underwriting the stringent rules for clinical trials. "Warp speed" or some shit. He is desperate to be able to say that his abandoning the safety protocols of scientific study ending in a net positive. Those rules were in place for one reason and one reason only... public safety.

    Those safety measures are characterized as "horrible red tape and massive regulations"... yet another Republican right wing trope.

    The plasma stuff just allows him to boast that his actions had results. Those results are characterized as net positives by all those Trump apologists. They boast of having "started from scratch" and have since fast tracked all the current treatments and tests they claim are available, all the while conveniently ignoring the brute facts that the only reason they had to start from scratch is because Trump fucked up royally in his initial response.
  • Derukugi
    18


    Corona has killed about 9000 people in the US, a practically irrelevant figure.

    (Yes, the figure always quoted in the media is 150,000, but those are with co-morbidities. Corona alone only 6% of that, aka about 9000 people).

    See updated CDC page:
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR2-muRM3tB3uBdbTrmKwH1NdaBx6PpZo2kxotNwkUXlnbZXCwSRP2OmqsI#Comorbidities
  • ssu
    3.2k
    And that's why there are risk groups for corona virus, the old and those with other conditions like heart disease etc. Still makes the pandemic a pandemic. And the US deaths have blown well past the numbers of the 1968 flu pandemic, the H3N2 Influenza A outbreak, the so-called Hong Kong flu and also the 1957-1958 influenza pandemic by deaths.

    Now there's only the Spanish Flu to compete with. That's 500 000 to 850 000 dead, so I assume this pandemic won't break the record.
  • Benkei
    3.4k
    4 more years of Trump and it might.
  • Derukugi
    18
    Now there's only the Spanish Flu to compete with. That's 500 000 to 850 000 dead, so I assume this pandemic won't break the record.ssu

    With 9000 Corona-only deaths in the US so far (I think adjusted for co-morbidities, figures look similar in other countries), no it won´t.
    The CDC statistics show that it is really heard on the elderly, plus people with several co-morbidities. For most of the population, it is neglibible.
  • ssu
    3.2k
    With similar thinking, I assume you get very low deaths to the AIDS pandemic too.
  • Hanover
    5.8k
    With similar thinking, I assume you get very low deaths to the AIDS pandemic too.ssu

    This isn't correct. Prior to effective treatments, AIDS killed 100% of those infected regardless of age or comorbidity. Covid kills primarily (and with very few exceptions) those already vulnerable. With covid, it's a reasonable question to ask to what extent has death been hastened by the infection in those with comorbidities because the answer will determine to what extent we need to implement safety measures against infection. It's clear that such a question is difficult to answer because it requires an evaluation of the deceased person's pre-covid prognosis, and prognoses are by their nature speculative.

    From a political perspective, the fact that death from covid cannot be distinguished from death with covid is extremely problematic because it leaves the question of how diligently we ought to protect ourselves against covid subject to legitimate debate.
  • ssu
    3.2k
    This isn't correct.Hanover
    It is correct.

    HIV doesn't kill, it's the other diseases.
  • Hanover
    5.8k
    It is correct.

    HIV doesn't kill, it's the other diseases.
    ssu

    Can you truly not see a distinction between having a pre-existing comorbidity that leaves you vulnerable to serious illness from an otherwise modest viral attack versus being infected with a virus that devastates your immune system to the point where you succumb to otherwise benign opportunistic diseases?
  • ssu
    3.2k
    It's still comorbidity, Hanover.

    And Derukugi's argument was that only 9000 have died in the US to COVID-19 and hence the whole pandemic scare is negligible, which I think is a wrong conclusion.
  • Michael
    9.1k
    COVID is the worst thing since WWII. Right?
  • philosopher004
    73
    COVID is the worst thing since WWII. Right?Michael

    On a global scale, yes but with respect to individual countries it might not be the worst thing.
  • ssu
    3.2k
    COVID is the worst thing since WWII. Right?Michael
    For whom?

    Just the Vietnam War killed far more people than COVID and during 1959-1961 the Great Chinese Famine killed between 15 to 55 million people thanks to the "Great Leap Forward".

    But who cares about if many millions of people died in Mao's China.

    I could agree with this if the time period is changed to this century, to the 21st Century and up until now.
  • darthbarracuda
    3k
    Corona has killed about 9000 people in the US, a practically irrelevant figure.

    (Yes, the figure always quoted in the media is 150,000, but those are with co-morbidities. Corona alone only 6% of that, aka about 9000 people).
    Derukugi

    This doesn't change the fact that 150K people with pre-existing conditions are dead.

    "Well, if they weren't diabetic, maybe they wouldn't have died. COVID-19 didn't kill them!"

    "Well, if the forest wasn't so dry, it wouldn't have caught fire. The lightning strike didn't start it!"

    "Well, if she had been wearing her seat belt, she would still be alive. The drunk driver didn't kill her!"

    COVID-19 is still a pandemic, even if it doesn't kill healthy people. The combination of certain pre-existing conditions and COVID-19 has proven to be lethal, and those vulnerable to this are pleading to everyone else: please don't kill me.
  • Derukugi
    18
    This doesn't change the fact that 150K people with pre-existing conditions are dead.darthbarracuda

    Yes, but WITH Corona, not FROM Corona. It is a different statement.
    And it more reflects the general health of a population than anything about the virus. (Which I suspect will be the general global outcome anyway, once this thing has run its course.)
  • jorndoe
    1.1k
    :

    CDC 6% COVID Death Rate?? | A Doctor Explains Here's how to actually interpret those CDC #COVID19 mortality numbers. (8m:53s facebook av) ← a trained medical professional explains

    False claim shared by President Trump that only 6% of CDC-reported deaths are from COVID-19 is based on flawed reasoning (Pablo Rougerie; Health Feedback; Aug 2020) ← fact check

    Misrepresentation is this → ← close to lying (or it's bullshitting).
  • Janus
    9.3k
    Yes, but WITH Corona, not FROM Corona. It is a different statement.
    And it more reflects the general health of a population than anything about the virus. (Which I suspect will be the general global outcome anyway, once this thing has run its course.)
    Derukugi

    How many people without co-morbidities likely died from the Spanish flu, or die each year from the seasonal flu? What makes you think the situation with Covid is any different? The important figures are the number of deaths and the mortality rates per capita.
  • Benkei
    3.4k
    Drunk people are more likely to get run over, so when they do, according to you, the cause of death isn't blunt force trauma from a car.

    If it wasn't for covid, a lot of people would still be alive despite their underlying conditions.

    There's actually an indepth discussion in this thread on the subject to what extent covid is killing people that would've died in the next year any way. Search for "cohorts".
  • Derukugi
    18
    How many people without co-morbidities likely died from the Spanish flu, or die each year from the seasonal flu?Janus

    I do not know that, and neither do you. Fact is, Corona alone is killing very few people. Incidentally, the Spanish flue killed especially young and healthy people (apparently caused of overreaction in the immune system), so it is more like opposite situation of Corona.
  • darthbarracuda
    3k
    Yes, but WITH Corona, not FROM Corona. It is a different statement.Derukugi

    Not at all. Vulnerable people die from a combination of COVID-19 and other illnesses.

    What you seem to be implying is that COVID-19 is an epiphenomenon of sorts, that it happens to accompany these deaths but does not actively play a role in them. This is unsubstantiated. COVID-19 does in fact play a causal role in these deaths.

    And it more reflects the general health of a population than anything about the virus. (Which I suspect will be the general global outcome anyway, once this thing has run its course.)Derukugi

    In other words, "sucks to suck!" :roll:
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