• Pop
    1.5k
    Consciousness entangles, Integrates and unifies information.
    It is the only mental faculty that dose so.


    When it comes to creativity – it is consciousness that is creative, by entangling, integrating and unifying information in various ways. When it comes to imagination, it is consciousness that entangles, integrates and unifies the imagined information.

    When it comes to deciding on a work of art ( painting ) it is consciousness that decides on the canvas. It is consciousness that decides on image.It is consciousness that decides composition. It is consciousness that decides on colour.It is consciousness that decides how to mix the colours and whether the hues are correct. It is consciousness that decides which brush you use and how you place the paint on the canvas. It is consciousness that decides how well you are going. . It is consciousness that decides when the painting is finished. And it is consciousness that decides if it is a success or not.

    So in the end what is the painting an expression of?

    When it comes to deciding what art is, it is consciousness that makes the call!

    It is the fundamental mental function from which all thought arises, and this is what we express when making art –our consciousness!
  • deletedmemberrw
    50
    For me, if it's not hard to make, it isn't art.
  • Pop
    1.5k
    For me, if it's not hard to make, it isn't art.RAW

    :up: For sure, for me, every painting is that masterpiece - the one just beyond my reach, that takes everything out of me, that is the best I can do, at that particular time. And when it is finished, if it ever is, then I move onto the next similar such struggle.

    Welcome to the forum. :smile:
  • Philofile
    62
    For sure, every painting is that masterpiece - the one just beyond my reach, that takes everything out of me, that is the best I can do, at that particular time. And when it is finished, if it ever is, then I move onto the next similar such struggle.Pop

    Do you paint?
  • Philofile
    62


    Wow! Tomorrow (if not banned) I show some of mine. I maybe have a dream of your paintings... :smile:
  • Tom Storm
    5.8k
    Why should it matter to anyone what art is? Personally, my hunch is that art is not the object itself but the culture around it.
  • Philofile
    62


    I couldn't resist looking further. Apples in jars! That is true madness. Great! Ohoooh. Wife calls again... For the last time, she says... :smile:
  • Pop
    1.5k
    Apples in jars! That is true madnessPhilofile

    :up: That is how I am gifted :rofl:

    I'll look forward to seeing your work.
  • Pop
    1.5k
    ↪Pop Why should it matter to anyone what art is? Personally, my hunch is that art is not the object itself but the culture around it.Tom Storm

    It matters a huge deal. When art is undefined it fragments into many things, such as what has happened in post modernism. When it was defined to some extent, during modernism, there was a vague central agreement as to what constituted good art. So art integrated somewhat around this understanding, and the best examples of this understanding, was good art. The owners of this understanding were artists and intellectuals, so progress in art was driven by the people central to it, and there was a largely united world vision of what constitutes good art.

    Without this world wide central agreement art has fragmented into fiefdoms of art, where what constitutes good art is the domain of the most powerful, rather then the most knowledgeable, imo.
  • deletedmemberrw
    50
    For sure, for me, every painting is that masterpiece - the one just beyond my reach, that takes everything out of me, that is the best I can do, at that particular time. And when it is finished, if it ever is, then I move onto the next similar such struggle.Pop

    Of course, as a professional concept artist I can relate to that, to me every new concept piece is a personal masterpiece, the best I can do at the moment.
  • Pop
    1.5k
    Of course, as a professional concept artist I can relate to that, to me every new concept piece is a personal masterpiece, the best I can do at the moment.RAW

    I've shown you mine, lets see yours? :lol:
  • deletedmemberrw
    50
    I've shown you mine, lets see yours? :lol:Pop

    I mostly do hard surface/tech designs but began doing some creatures too.
  • Pop
    1.5k
    I mostly do hard surface/tech designs but began doing some creatures too.RAW

    :up: Nice.

    I wish I had the technical knowhow for computer graphics. In game art would be so cool.

    Thanks.
  • deletedmemberrw
    50
    Yeah, it's a nice creative educational (you learn a lot about a lot of different things) job, perhaps one of the best in the world. I'll remove the the link and images if you don't mind, not sure if it's allowed.
  • Tom Storm
    5.8k
    t matters a huge deal. When art is undefined it fragments into many things, such as what has happened in post modernism. When it was defined to some extent, during modernism, there was a vague central agreement as to what constituted good art. So art integrated somewhat around this understanding, and the best examples of this understanding, was good art. The owners of this understanding were artists and intellectuals, so progress in art was driven by the people central to it, and there was a largely united world vision of what constitutes good art.

    Without this world wide central agreement art has fragmented into fiefdoms of art, where what constitutes good art is the domain of the most powerful, rather then the most knowledgeable, imo.
    Pop

    I would hate for there to be agreement as to what constitutes good art. Art is simply what people put on display and call art. Whether it is good or not only matters in certain shared contexts and perhaps in the art business where 'good' equals $..

    Apart from some academics or cognoscenti, no one will ever much care about systems or classifications of artistic merit - what will endure is personal taste and/or the market which both in their own way determine what is good.

    Now it might be that if you subscribe to philosophical idealism you may see art as being the pursuit of goodness, beauty and truth. Then you can potentially posit categories of objective aesthetics which art either embodies or does not. Kind of pointless from where I sit.
  • Pop
    1.5k
    I would hate for there to be agreement as to what constitutes good art. Art is simply what people put on display and call art. Whether it is good or not only matters in certain shared contextsTom Storm

    An art created by a particular consciousness, will be appreciated by a likewise consciousness.
    But not by an unlike consciousness.

    This fact, prevents art from being arbitrary.
  • Philofile
    62
    Art is simply what people put on display and call art.Tom Storm

    Tomorrow I'm gonna break a few treebranches artistically and if people wanna buy it...

    I saw a documentary on Banksy. He sold his paintings on a market. People wouldn't buy from him. Not even if he lowered the price. If only had they known...
  • Tom Storm
    5.8k
    Tomorrow I'm gonna break a few treebranches artistically and if people wanna buy it...Philofile

    It's been done.
  • Tom Storm
    5.8k
    This fact, prevents art from being arbitrary.Pop

    That fact is arbitrary. What sensibility you have and what you are drawn to is an arbitrary fate of subjective experience.

    by a likewise consciousness.Pop

    It's not consciousness - it's personal taste.
  • Philofile
    62
    It's been done.Tom Storm

    Huh? Seriously? Then I'll tear some leaves apart and sprinkle them on an aquarium surface. With robofish. Programmed to devour leave. And then leave.
  • Pop
    1.5k
    That fact is arbitrary. What sensibility you have and what you are drawn to is an arbitrary fate of subjective experience.Tom Storm

    It's not consciousness - it's personal taste.Tom Storm



    How does personal taste arise? What is subjectivity a function of?
  • I like sushi
    4k
    @Pop I don't really see much here tbh. I would suggest putting forward other philosopher's definitions and thoughts about 'Art' and pointing out their limitations.

    Once you've done that I would also suggest getting across what isn't 'Art'. The way you've put it - about 'consciousness' - just leaves me asking what 'expression of consciousness' means here compared to just plain old 'consciousness' ... that should only be dealt with at a later time once you've gone over definitions and thoughts that are already out there today (check aesthetics).

    When you've done that I'd be interested to read what you've got :)
  • Pop
    1.5k
    Pop I don't really see much here tbhI like sushi

    That is obvious from what you have written.

    This is a definition of art. It defines precisely what art provides - information about the artist's consciousness.

    What is consciousness is what you seem to be asking? I have defined consciousness as "an evolving process of self organization". So when we put these two together we get: art is information about the artist's evolving process of self organization.

    Make sense?
  • Tom Storm
    5.8k
    How does personal taste arise? What is subjectivity a function of?Pop

    No idea. Does anyone really know? Ususally you develop a taste based on what you get to experience and what out of that experience appeals and sometimes someone shows you things they like and you get to like those things too. Some tastes are intuitive and may not have an accessible explanation.

    Lots of people have a personal taste that is absent and quite phoney - they think they should like things because that's whatever the in-group they wish to please likes.
  • I like sushi
    4k
    You're failing to address what expressions of consciousness are not 'Art'. Stating that art is an expression of consciousness is not telling me what expressions of consciousness aren't 'Art'.

    Also, be careful distinguishing between (or at least addressing as clearly and concisely as possible) the act of producing art, viewing art and objects regarded as art (tied into the former).
  • Nosferatu
    7
    This is a definition of art. It defines precisely what art provides - information about the artist's consciousness.Pop

    That's your vision on art. What are the consciousnesses you are talking about? People? What about tribal art wrt to the gods?
  • Pop
    1.5k
    No idea. Does anyone really know?Tom Storm

    These are elements of your consciousness - of your self organization.


    That's your vision on art. What are the consciousnesses you are talking about? People? What about tribal art wrt to the gods?Nosferatu

    This is a definition of art - it captures all art for all time, for all cultures. Lay out your own art chronologically and look at yourself evolving.

    Pop You're failing to address what expressions of consciousness are not 'Art'.I like sushi

    Ha, ha. There are many expressions of consciousness, but only some are deemed to be art.

    ​1.    Art is an ungrounded variable mental construct: Objects are arbitrarily deemed to be art. Art’s only necessary distinction from ordinary objects is the extra deemed art information. Art can be anything the artist thinks of, but this is limited by their consciousness.Pop
  • Tom Storm
    5.8k
    These are elements of your consciousness - of your self organization.Pop

    I think those are just words. Not sure they really connect to anything except as a figure of speech. You could also say, and with no greater meaning, that my tastes are elements of my psychological essence - of my personal identity. What does this contribute?
  • Pop
    1.5k
    You could also say, and with no greater meaning, that my tastes are elements of my psychological essence - of my personal identity. What does this contribute?Tom Storm

    An understanding of what art provides.
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