Why I don't drink

Gaurav Sobti

I am appreciative of the opportunity afforded by this forum to submit a topic for discussion. The following constitutes my first post on thephilosophyforum.

I am asked why I don't drink any more. Following is my argument for not doing so. I would appreciate a critique of the same.

To appreciate my point of view on alcohol consumption, consider the situation involving 'pain'.

Pain is caused by, say, some thing hitting you; drunkenness is caused by the consumption of alcohol. The act of some thing hitting you causes nerve signals to travel to the brain; likewise, I suppose, the act of consuming alcohol causes certain neurotransmitters to be released by the brain causing a temporary relaxation of its logical center.

Something more occurs in both cases: pain causes one to cry or scream; alcohol initiates in many a sense of euphoria. Alternatively, someone may endure pain stoically, without any outward expression; someone else, similarly, might endure alcohol in a way that renders them sick. Nevertheless, in case of alcohol, it is this euphoric state that one pursues socially on weekends.

The crux of my argument is this:we have no compunction about accepting that someone may cry or scream without actually being hurt & in pain; however, it isn't equally convincing to the social drinker that the pursuit of the euphoric state associated with drunkenness may accrue without the actual act of drinking alcohol!

So, I investigated four of the primary reasons social drinkers proferr:

1) "I am less inhibited when I drink": To that I suggest that one should strive to be uninhibited and open to new ideas & learnings as a matter of course.

2) "I am more open-hearted when I drink": To that, too, I counter that one ought to be considerate & open-hearted all the time.

3) "I am less risk-averse and more adventurous when I drink": I say one should seek adventure, meaning, and higher purpose in life each & every day.

4) "I am more at peace when I drink": There are alternatives like deep breathing, meditation, sitting quietly, and others that can trigger peacefulness.

Each of the above four are noble pursuits, I concur.

So, I submit that, having myself been a consumer of alcohol and well-versed with the associated euphoric state, I inhabit the euphoric state simply by pursuing all that the state of euphoria is constituted of: by being an uninhibited, open-hearted, clean, honest, and loving individual, I become that which is grasped momentarily by the alcohol consumer.

If alcohol consumption gives one a glimpse of higher, nobler ways of being, one ought to strive to attaining them without aid; and to not continue to keep knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's Door every weekend, but to have the intelligence, will, & courage to walk through it.

BC

continue to keep knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's Door every weekend — Gaurav Sobti

Why on earth would anyone wait until the weekend to knock knock knock on Heaven's Door when glory can be had with a few bottles of beer or a few ounces of gin RIGHT NOW?

Man, I've had religious ecstasy, and I've had transcendental peace. These are both high-end gold-wrapped candy which are dandy, but philosophers know that liquor is quicker. And more certain as well. Right now I have in my hand a glass of tonic, New Amsterdam gin, and ice cubes and already I am experiencing the divine tranquilization of the spirit world that I have come to know and love. It works, and it's quite affordable.

Skol!

BC

...and after we get done with a few of these, you can come up to my apartment and I'll show you some etchings which are very nice...

Barry Etheridge

Why does everything in life have to be built up into these great philosophical psychodramas? I like a drink now and then. I don't feel any need to justify this to myself or anyone else. It is pure speculation on your part that people drink alcohol in pursuit of euphoria primarily. One of the principal reasons in the past, for example, was that it was a darn sight safer than drinking the local water! And why do you feel that any reason is required for you're not imbibing. It looks an awful lot like virtue signalling from here!

ArguingWAristotleTiff

I am allergic to almost all alcohol except Vodka and Tequila, which when I do consume (maybe one drink a year) it has to be a shot in a tall glass of Grapefruit, Orange or Pineapple juice. A single slurp off a drink made with Rum and my muscles start to cramp up, to a shot of Strawberry Brandy that put me in the ER with hives on my ankles, neck and eyes, with trouble breathing.
My body's reaction made it really easy for me to make a decision where to draw the line with drinking and fortunately it is hereditary and it appears at least one of my children have the same reaction as me.

Barry Etheridge

If you can drink vodka then the last thing you are allergic to is alcohol! Clearly you are allergic to the flavouring elements in these drinks, not the alcohol itself. And did you really just say that you think your child is 'fortunate' to have allergies? I wonder if he/she shares your enthusiasm!

ArguingWAristotleTiff

If you can drink vodka then the last thing you are allergic to is alcohol! — Barry Etheridge

Well getting to 46 years old and understanding how alcohol interacts with my body and the Doctors understanding how it interacts, makes me want to take your word over our experience. :-} (I hope that is an eye roll) Hmmm...not likely. What I have figured out is, it is the impurities of the cheap Vodka or Tequila, which is why when I do have a drink it has to be top shelf (Cuervo 1800) mixed with a strong acidic juice.

Clearly you are allergic to the flavoring elements in these drinks, not the alcohol itself. — Barry Etheridge

With the brandy it was the sugar mixed with the alcohol that put me in the ER but they didn't say I was allergic to sugar but rather alcohol.

And did you really just say that you think your child is 'fortunate' to have allergies? I wonder if he/she shares your enthusiasm — Barry Etheridge

I did just say that and will again if you wish. My son does appreciate the fact that he can openly dismiss offers of something that makes him feel ill.
Is there something wrong with someone who does not drink?

wuliheron

Alcohol makes people do stupid things, its addictive, kills people, AND is involved in some 80% of all fatal car accidents and violent crimes. That's why its the drug of choice in the most violent country in the developed world.

BC

I am allergic to almost all alcohol except Vodka and Tequila — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Vodka is an uncolored alcohol product. It's relatively simple. Consider brandy, whiskey, bourbon, cordials... These products are aged in oak barrels--some of them charred, are distilled from wines (brandy), or have all sorts of flavorings (cordials). There is a very long list of compounds which could trigger an allergic reaction. Gin is good, but some people are annoyed by juniper berries.

Beer, especially the micro-brewed or nano-brewed products consist of yeast, grain, water, and hops. Within the yeast and hops there are quite a few possible allergens. Celeriac cases probably can't drink beer made from wheat (as opposed to barley).

So your allergy to many types of alcoholic mixes is quite plausible. Plutonium hexafluoride has a delicious strawberry flavor, but gives many people problems when guzzled in large quantities. They tend to just keel over, shrivel up, and glow in the dark.

BC

↪wuliheron

There is a readily detectible difference between a buzz, euphoria, and stupor. Alcohol is addictive, and does cause a lot of misery and death. I suspect that those who become alcoholic (addicted to alcohol) are genetically predisposed. The predisposition is composed of the way alcohol is metabolized, the effect it has on behavior, and a not-alcohol-related tendency to lurch into uncontrolled or barely controlled behaviors.

Most people seem to be able to drink alcohol safely, once they have learned how they react to it (unfortunately, quite a few people die in the process, because their first encounter with a lot of alcohol can result in stupor). I could easily have died from my first encounter with a lot of alcohol (a bottle of cheap wine). We got drunk on the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi (where we were old enough to buy the crappy slop we guzzled down) then crossed a railroad bridge back to Minnesota (by which point we were totally drunk). It's just luck that I-we didn't fall off the bridge into the water and drown.

Metaphysician Undercover

Alcohol makes people do stupid things, its addictive, kills people, AND is involved in some 80% of all fatal car accidents and violent crimes. — wuliheron

Where I live, using the phone is involved in more fatal accidents than alcohol. The statistic for alcohol is far less than 80%.

↪Gaurav Sobti

Is this supposed to be why you don't drink, or an argument why no one should drink? You know, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

Hanover

↪Gaurav Sobti

What a long winded post trying to rationalize why you don't drink. Why don't you just own up to the fact that you're a light weight little girl who can't hold his liquor so you must abstain?

Hanover

Where I live, using the phone is involved in more fatal accidents than alcohol. The statistic for alcohol is far less than 80%. — Metaphysician Undercover

Where do you live, at the Samsung Galaxy S7 store?

shmik

↪Gaurav Sobti

You don't actually present any arguments not to drink.

To say X is one method to achieve Y yet there are other methods to achieve Y, isn't actually an argument against X.

Also to say X is one method to achieve Y for a specific period of time yet we should strive to achieve Y at all times, also isn't an argument against X.

Neither of these are arguments against eatin pasta.

Eating pasta is one way to satisfy hunger yet there are other ways.

Eating pasta satisfies hunger, yet we should strive to satisfy hunger as a matter of course.

Still no actual reasons to avoid pasta or alcohol.

adrien

↪shmik

I agree

wuliheron

Is this supposed to be why you don't drink, or an argument why no one should drink? You know, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for everyone. — Metaphysician Undercover

Hippies like to argue that if you must do recreational drugs its better to do ones that don't tend to make you do stupid things, aren't addictive, are not associated with violence, and don't ruin your body. Some twenty percent of the people in prison in the US are potheads that even most cops say are not hardened criminals and shouldn't be there. Its really just culture wars along the same lines as blacks being incarcerated at eight times the rates of whites.

Buxtebuddha

↪adrien

I agree — adrien

BC

In Deuteronomy 14:26 and other places, Gawd acknowledged that people weren't always able to get to Jerusalem to celebrate holy days at the Temple. In such an event, the instructions were as follows:

You may spend the money to your heart’s content to buy livestock, flocks, wine, strong drink, and whatever you desire. You and your household may eat there and rejoice in the presence of the Lord your God.”

If God is for it, why should anyone be against it--other than those in AA?

Hanover

↪wuliheron

0.1% of all prisoners are there for being a pothead (recreational users). https://learnaboutsam.org/the-issues/marijuana-and-whos-in-prison/

You were off by 200x with the number you provided of 20%. It would be extremely uncommon to find a simple marijuana user in prison, considering simple possession is a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions and prison is reserved for felons. The percentage in county jails is .7%, 25x less than the number you provided.

Benkei

True. Although it's notoriously difficult to differentiate between possession and distribution. If it's anything like the Netherlands that's somewhere around your 5th joint. So don't get weed for the whole week.

Anyway, the US has other problems than drugs but they are exemplified in this area. The US spends a ludicrous amount on the war on drugs without obvious effectiveness and Latinos and Blacks make up 89% of the prison population in there for drug crimes (possession and distribution), whereas that's rather evenly distributed among white folk as well.

Ciceronianus

God's teeth. Are there people who drink alcohol to attain a glimpse of "higher, nobler states of being"?

I tend to drink whiskey, for example, or wine, because I enjoy doing so. "Well" you may say "You can enjoy yourself without drinking whiskey or wine, without their aid." Yes, and I do. What of it?

Benkei

Shame on you. I'm partial to Knockando myself.

wuliheron

You were off by 200x with the number you provided of 20%. It would be extremely uncommon to find a simple marijuana user in prison, considering simple possession is a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions and prison is reserved for felons. The percentage in county jails is .7%, 25x less than the number you provided. — Hanover

Trust the medical profession to play with numbers in a "nonpartisan" manner.

https://www.aclu.org/gallery/marijuana-arrests-numbers

"According to the ACLU’s original analysis, marijuana arrests now account for over half of all drug arrests in the United States. Of the 8.2 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Nationwide, the arrest data revealed one consistent trend: significant racial bias. Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana."

They are using marijuana as an excuse to bust people and then trump up charges. We had one cop in Norfolk VA who was caught and the city had to review over 430 busts he made. They are PIGS who the billionaire mayor of NYC had arrest 26 reporters in one day. That's why just yesterday there were four cases across the country of people executing cops in broad daylight without provocation. When there is no justice in or out of court cops are just mafia hired thugs and judges are merely the dons. In fact, that's how the mafia was first established in Italy, when their judicial system became so corrupt inventing their own brand of justice became more attractive.

Hanover

↪wuliheron

This post is non- responsive to my comments. You made an outlandish claim about marijuana related imprisonment, and now you're quoting stats for just arrests and how they compare to other drug related arrests. Are you now conceding your prior stats were BS?

The trend for many years has been toward decriminalization and outright legalization of marijuana. Most large cities have been issuing citations instead of even arresting simple possession users.

wuliheron

↪Hanover

For a decriminalized substance its still responsible for 45% of all drug related arrests and our new attorney general is quoted as saying he thought the KKK was OK until he found out they smoked pot. The sad fact is its a culture war promoted for the sake of keeping the poor poor and rich rich with the middle class selling their souls to the devil.

http://norml.org/news/2015/11/12/report-one-in-eight-federal-drug-prisoners-serving-time-for-marijuana-offenses

The war on drugs has not reduced the consumption of drugs, yet the war goes on with the US creating the largest prison population in the history of planet.

Hanover

↪wuliheron

Still off point. You referenced stats that were outrageously false. Do you now concede you just made them up and wish to talk about something else?

wuliheron

↪Hanover

They were not outrageously false, but certainly a bit exaggerated. Instead of one in five it is one in eight federal prisoners. Statistics also support the idea it is merely a culture war with the war on drugs achieving no success whatsoever since Ronald Reagan first proposed it. As the Norml statistics also indicate, the potheads they are arresting are often over 40 years old, have never been incarcerated, and don't own a gun. You are more likely to be arrested for smoking pot than for committing a violent crime.

Huffington Post did another article on the issue that shows how drugs are the single largest reason for incarceration, while white collar crimes go virtually unpunished. The poor and working class know damned well what is going on which is why as the war on drugs has escalated people are now executing cops and rioting in the streets knowing there is no justice in or out of court, while the middle class merely shakes their heads wondering "Why can't we all just get along?" and vote with their wallets like good little drones.

dukkha

"According to the ACLU’s original analysis, marijuana arrests now account for over half of all drug arrests in the United States. Of the 8.2 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Nationwide, the arrest data revealed one consistent trend: significant racial bias. Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana." — wuliheron

I don't buy the notion that what's causing the disproportionate rates of drug arrests between blacks and whites is simply racist cops. There's many other more plausible explanations. Black people are far over represented in nearly all categories of crime. So if black people are commiting more crime (a lot more) on average than white people, this means there's a far higher chance for a black person to be arrested on an unrelated matter, or to have dealings with police.

Let's say the rates for marijuana possession for both black and white people is 5/10. Half of all people are walking around with cannabis on their person. But, the rate for say theft is 3/10 for black people but only 1/10 for whites. So we'll say monthly, 3/10 blacks commit theft, but only 1/10 whites do. Let's say that the odds of getting caught stealing are 1/2. This means that per month, 1.5/10 black people get arrested, while only .5/10 whites do. Because half of both blacks and whites are carrying cannabis, and all arrestees are searched, this would mean that per month .75/10 black people are charged with cannabis possession, while only .25/10 white people are. Even though blacks and whites posess cannabis at the exact same rates.

There could be other reasons as well, such as black people being more likely to behave ways that causes them to be arrested for possession more often. This could be say, smoking cannabis in public places more often than whites, dealing cannabis in open air markets at a higher rate, driving high more often, not hiding heir cannabis well enough.

There's plenty if explanations other than just "white people are racist and use drug laws to 'punish' blacks for being inferior."

jkop

...
And you, you can be mean
And I, I'll drink all the time
'Cause we're lovers, and that is a fact
Yes we're lovers, and that is that
... — Bowie

wuliheron

I don't buy the notion that what's causing the disproportionate rates of drug arrests between blacks and whites is simply racist cops. There's many other more plausible explanations. Black people are far over represented in nearly all categories of crime. So if black people are commiting more crime (a lot more) on average than white people, this means there's a far higher chance for a black person to be arrested on an unrelated matter, or to have dealings with police. — dukkha

The cops are not necessarily racist, they are simply doing their job which, unfortunately, today means racial profiling. They are deliberately targeting blacks because cops get promoted according to how many successful busts and convictions and courts are more likely to convict a black man. Nor is it illegal for them to do so and it doesn't mean that the courts are overwhelmingly racist, it means they are racially biased and they are promoting racist policies and racist policing.

Its money doing all the driving because the lights are on, but nobody is home. Blacks rioting in the streets and executing cops is the only viable way they have of making the war too expensive to continue. They already tried the peaceful approach and look what's happened as a result.

intrapersona

Man, I've had religious ecstasy, and I've had transcendental peace. These are both high-end gold-wrapped candy which are dandy, but philosophers know that liquor is quicker. And more certain as well. Right now I have in my hand a glass of tonic, New Amsterdam gin, and ice cubes and already I am experiencing the divine tranquilization of the spirit world that I have come to know and love. It works, and it's quite affordable. — Bitter Crank

Haha! Oh man what a great post, transcendental peace & religious ecstasy from ethanol intoxication? When pigs fly! :D haha

Why I don't drink

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Categories

More Discussions