• ovdtogt
    667
    Yes that might be the biggest problem of all: Not knowing what we don't know.
  • creativesoul
    8.1k
    Yes 'usefulness' is a property of truth.ovdtogt

    And falsehood... so usefulness is of no help here when setting out truth(as distinct from falsehood).
  • Possibility
    1.3k
    How is any of the above without regard for time when time is one of the fundamental references for all those relations you've pointed out?BrianW

    Yeah, I didn’t explain that well. Scratch that. I’ll need to think about it some more.
  • Possibility
    1.3k
    I've taken some time to think. So what I've found, and am here to state with certainty, that existence is therefore only provable insofar as human comprehension can be achieved. This means that existence so far is only provable with the human that can comprehend the universe the most, or the collective reasoning of it.ep3265

    I think that human comprehension relies, more than we’re often willing to admit, on a collaborative relationship with other human as well as non-human comprehension. We must trust in the comprehension of others, if we are to increase knowledge beyond our own empirical experience. It’s not the human who can comprehend the most, then, but the human who can maximise awareness, connection and collaboration.
  • ep3265
    54
    No, I'd say comprehension is almost totally set in stone. Think of it as IQ. It's the ability to understand things at a certain level, it's not what you understand or know. A person with an IQ of 200 can still be wrong about a piece of information, and a person with an IQ of 90 can be right about that same thing. It's moreso what we can understand, not what we do understand.
  • ovdtogt
    667
    And falsehood... so usefulness is of no help here when setting out truth(as distinct from falsehood).creativesoul

    Yes. Usefulness can be the property of a falsehood not known to be false.
    But unuseful can never be the property of truth.
    Truth must always contain the property of usefulness.
  • creativesoul
    8.1k
    Usefulness can be the property of a falsehood not known to be false.ovdtogt

    And falsehood known to be false... so usefulness is of no help here when setting out truth(as distinct from falsehood).
  • creativesoul
    8.1k
    Yes 'usefulness' is a property of truth.If the 'truth' does not contain 'usefulness'(i.e information) it can not be considered 'truth'.
    Usefulness is a property of information.

    Unless a statement contains information, it is totally meaningless and does not contain truth.
    Truth without information has no value and therefor can not be truth.
    Truth without information is not truth.
    ovdtogt

    This is self-contradictory and/or incoherent.

    Let A = usefulness
    Let B = truth
    Let C = information
    Let D = a statement

    :brow:
  • ovdtogt
    667
    And falsehood known to be false... so usefulnesscreativesoul

    And what do you find so useful in falsehoods?
  • ovdtogt
    667
    This is self-contradictory and/or incoherent.

    Let A = usefulness
    Let B = truth
    Let C = information
    Let D = a statement
    creativesoul

    And this is a totally useless statement.
  • creativesoul
    8.1k
    This is self-contradictory and/or incoherent.

    Let A = usefulness
    Let B = truth
    Let C = information
    Let D = a statement
    — creativesoul

    And this is a totally useless statement.
    ovdtogt

    Sigh....
  • creativesoul
    8.1k
    what do you find so useful in falsehoods?ovdtogt

    It's not about what I find... it's about everyday events where people intentionally use falsehoods to mislead others.

    The point is that usefulness is of no use in discriminating between truth and falsehood. Discriminating between truth and falsehood is required for taking proper account of truth. Thus... usefulness is useless here...
  • ovdtogt
    667
    Usefulness can be the property of a falsehood known to be false.creativesoul

    Again I ask you. You said it. Now defend it and stop being intellectually dishonest.
    What do you find useful in a falsehood known to be false?
  • ovdtogt
    667
    Read my last post.creativesoul

    intellectually dishonest.
  • Devans99
    2.5k
    What do you find useful in a falsehood known to be false?ovdtogt

    Falsehoods are often of value from an artistic or comedic aspect. They can also generate other ideas that are not false and turn out to be useful.

    There are many more ways to do something wrong than right (=optimal) so the world would be a pretty bare place without falsehoods.
  • ovdtogt
    667
    What do you find useful in a falsehood known to be false?ovdtogt



    Give me 1 example.
  • Devans99
    2.5k
    Well most forms of comedy are based on doing something wrong. Clown A kicks clown B in the bum etc...

    Or impressionist / modern art is strictly speaking a wrong portrayal of reality but still has artistic merit.

    Or perhaps in science a theory maybe wrong, but it may lead to a better theory being developed through intellectual insights taken from the wrong theory.
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