• Galuchat
    686
    Are you accusing me of lying, or of just being ambiguous?Gnomon
    I'm accusing you of willful ignorance.

    If you think my definitions of Information gave Too Much Information (TMI). please don't look at the Information Philosopher website. It will boggle your mind.Gnomon
    Besides being presumptuous, that comment would be a case of psychological projection.
    But I'm beginning to tire of such entertainment, so we are done here.
  • Gnomon
    237
    Aether has structure and dynamicsZelebg
    As a field, Aether has mathematical structure and dynamics, but no material structure. Math is pure immaterial Information. So any physical field exists by definition, not in terms of matter. I can call the universe an Information Field, which, like a Quantum Field, has the power to convert Virtual Potential into Actual Matter. I know this way of looking at reality is counter-intuitive, but so is queer Quantum Theory, which is the foundation of modern science, and we'll have to get used to it

    Quantum physics: Our study suggests objective reality doesn't exist :
    https://phys.org/news/2019-11-quantum-physics-reality-doesnt.html.

    Electric and magnetic fields can be touched, that's all you ever touch.Zelebg
    You can't touch the immaterial field, but the atoms in your finger are affected by the spooky-action-at-a-distance of force fields. As I mentioned before, scientists often resort to metaphors of the macro world to describe the strangeness of the quantum realm.

    Why Physics Says You Can Never Actually Touch Anything :
    https://futurism.com/why-you-can-never-actually-touch-anything
  • Gnomon
    237
    But I'm beginning to tire of such entertainment, so we are done here.Galuchat
    Thanks for the "chat". :smile:
  • Gnomon
    237
    Phantasies are ok if they give you predictive power, but what do you do with a theory which gives you nothing to measure and no way to confirm?Zelebg
    Quantum Theory has proven to give scientists amazing predictive power. But measurement is a problem, as illustrated by Schrodinger's Cat. What they do, when faced with the Uncertainty Principle, is to run thought experiments (fantasies), where you manipulate Information (ideas) instead of Matter.

    Measurement Problem : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem
  • Zelebg
    123

    As a field, Aether has mathematical structure and dynamics, but no material structure.

    Maxwell got his equations based on fluid dynamic of Aether. There is no discussion here, you either do not believe this statement is true or you do not understand what it means.

    You can't touch the immaterial field, but the atoms in your finger are affected by the spooky-action-at-a-distance of force fields.

    Dear god! You confused transparent with immaterial and then just hallucinated total nonsense out of thin air. Quantum entanglement has nothing to do with attractive and repulsive forces of the magnetic and electric field. Clearly you lack basic knowledge in both classical and quantum physics. I'm out of here.
  • Gnomon
    237
    Maxwell got his equations based on fluid dynamic of Aether. There is no discussion here, you either do not believe this statement is true or you do not understand what it means.Zelebg
    I don't doubt that Maxwell used the ancient metaphor of Aether, as did Einstein. But searches for tangible evidence have come up empty. Mathematically, the Aether may be as real as PI ( 3.14159 ) which has real world applications, despite being an abstract irrational number.

    Apparently I don't know what you mean by "aether". A quick Google review of Aether articles finds that it is typically referred to as a "hypothesis", "theory", "proposal", "postulate", "conjecture", but not as a proven fact, that is "beyond discussion"..

    "From the 16th until the late 19th century, gravitational phenomena had also been modelled utilizing an aether. The most well-known formulation is Le Sage's theory of gravitation, although other models were proposed by Isaac Newton, Bernhard Riemann, and Lord Kelvin. None of those concepts are considered to be viable by the scientific community today"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories

    "Also known as ether, the definition of the aether from dictionary.com is… “a hypothetical substance supposed to occupy all space, postulated to account for the propagation of electromagnetic radiation through space”".
    http://energywavetheory.com/explanations/aether/
    This article also says "the aether exists", and has a video to prove it. It even claims that Aether "consists of tiny granules", as in the ancient theory of Atomism. But this seems to be a minority position among scientists.

    "The term “aether” (or “ether”) lives on as a colloquial expression in the West, an abstract idea of the intangible void. Certain traditional cultures still consider aether the fifth element, and it plays prominently in the esoteric worlds of magic, mysticism, and the supernatural."
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a23895030/aether/
  • Gnomon
    237
    is consciousness a type of feeling at all, and if not, then what in the world is it?Zelebg
    This thread has strayed off-topic, from defining Consciousness to arguing about the existence of Aether, and other peripheral issues. But, I'd like to play around with the original question about Feelings.

    I'll begin by observing that "Consciousness" seems to be a necessary function of living organisms. Or as Christoph Koch put it : "the feeling of life itself". Awareness begins as "feeling" in its literal, physical form, as a sense of touch or taste. Put out “feelers”, and receive feedback. That physical literal response is then transformed*1 into metaphysical metaphorical "feelings" (representations, symbols), that in turn stimulate physical emotions. Which is how touching is experienced*2 by the toucher. For example, a barely-alive bacterium or paramecium blindly gropes around in its environment as a means to stay alive, to find food and to avoid predators. Its sense of touch is mostly chemical (taste), and the representation of whatever is touched is probably evaluated by analogy : sugar good, acid bad. Without that minimal awareness of its milieu, the cell wouldn't achieve its "purpose" : to live. So, consciousness facilitates a teleological intention : to survive long enough to reproduce.

    In effect, consciousness is an extension of Self out into the world. And self-consciousness is like the feedback of touching yourself. So, Consciousness is how living agents achieve their basic purpose. And Self-consciousness is how they achieve a higher purpose : to represent Self as an agent in its sensory model of the world. Hence, the process of conscious feeling is an inherent function of the process of living, not an option. You might say that consciousness is what Organism does, and Mind is what Brain does. What they do is create abstract analogous ideal images from information about the concrete real world. Those images are not physical or real, but they are useful and functional. The difference between Life and Non-life is awareness of energy inputs and outputs that motivate and guide the organism toward intrinsic goals, rather than, like billiard balls, by direct action & reaction. Consciousness is how we reach-out and touch the world in imagination.


    *1 Transformed : this is the "hard problem" that is addressed by the Enformationism thesis.

    *2 Experience : Latin, ex- "out";-peril "trial, test, danger". Living things "try, attempt, reach out" in order to "test" for danger or opportunity.
12345Next
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment