:point:

I want you to directly address my last post.

I want you to directly address my last post.

Sorry I am not sure what you want exactly.

You need to make sense of the earlier equivalence drawn between all people who believe that there are human races. According to your definition all of them are racist, even those who fight against the devaluation of another based upon race.

Again...

Imagine person A who does not use the term "race" but hates asian people, and does not think that they should be allowed to live anywhere near person A and their family.

According to your definition this person is not racist.

Imagine person B who uses the term "race" and believes that there are such things as human races, all the time in a concerted effort to fight against the devaluation of another based upon race.

According to your definition this person is racist.
— creativesoul

Do you not see the problem here?

Person A is racist, and person B is not. Thus... your definition is wrong. — creativesoul

What is your answer to this?

Ok, so we've established that the FHA is still racist. — Harry Hindu

I don't know why this is difficult. The FHA could be 100% color blind, and the black housing conditions could be worse now (which they are). Ameliorating the damage done to the black community in the area of housing would require reparations. The FHA is not charged with the task of paying reparations, and nobody else is, either -- as you know.

There are two other sets of actors in the real estate industry: real estate brokerages and banks. Their roles are at least as critical now as the FHA's role.

Again your misrepresentation of my definition is wrong. According to my definition that person is not racist.

Don't be such a drama queen. It doesn't invalidate anything I've posted, and it's rather pathetic of you to think it would.

It doesn’t invalidate anything. It just shows what type of person you are. — NOS4A2

I'm intolerant of deception, yes, as I imagine many on this forum are.

According to your definition, person A is not racist, but person B is.

Im not talking about scientific, biological entities of differing kinds of species, And thats not what people generally mean when they use the term “race”. Im not saying we have Morlocks and Eeloys.
Its simply the term that references the differences amongst groups humans.
There are two different senses of the word, you keep conflating them. There is a clear difference between skin colours and other physical features amongst certain groups of people, “race” is the word that describes them. (That is, its one of the uses of the word, the way Im using it).

My definition is “ In it’s purest form, racism is the belief that the species may be divided into separate biological taxonomies called “race”. — NOS4A2

Imagine person A who does not use the term "race" but hates asian people, and does not think that they should be allowed to live anywhere near person A and their family.

According to your definition this person is not racist.

Imagine person B who uses the term "race" and believes that there are such things as human races, all the time in a concerted effort to fight against the devaluation of another based upon race.

According to your definition this person is racist.

According to your definition, person A is not racist, but person B is.

They are both racist because they both subscribe to the racist worldview. My contention is one cannot hate Asians unless he believes such a distinct group exists.

Im not talking about scientific, biological entities of differing kinds of species, And thats not what people generally mean when they use the term “race”. Im not saying we have Morlocks and Eeloys.
Its simply the term that references the differences amongst groups humans.
There are two different senses of the word, you keep conflating them. There is a clear difference between skin colours and other physical features amongst certain groups of people, “race” is the word that describes them. (That is, its one of the uses of the word, the way Im using it).

A Wells reference? I love it.

If there is a clear difference, what color on the human spectrum constitutes the dividing line between them? In other words, what color is the darkest white man and what color is the lightest black man?

Public discussions about race and racism have simply become a bad faith game. Whatever combination of words you say doesn’t so much matter beyond their malleability to uncharitable interpretation.

I always thought ‘color blindness’ is more an ideal to aspire to than a trait people have. The idea that you should treat people equally regardless of skin color. It seems a pretty straightforward and laudible principle to me.

That there are actual racists who disagree with this, and that many of them of them don’t recognize their own vile pettiness for what it is, strike me as inevitable and mundane. They’ve been using a redefining-language strategy with some irritating success for some years now. I assume there is a special place in hell for the word-changing-language-degrading types.

Public discussions about race and racism have simply become a bad faith game. Whatever combination of words you say doesn’t so much matter beyond their malleability to uncharitable interpretation.

I always thought ‘color blindness’ is more an ideal to aspire to than a trait people have. The idea that you should treat people equally regardless of skin color. It seems a pretty straightforward and laudible principle to me.

That there are actual racists who disagree with this is and that many of them of them don’t recognize their own vile pettiness for what it is strikes me as inevitable and mundane. They’ve been using a redefining-language strategy with some irritating success for some years now. I assume there is a special place in hell for the word-changing-language-degrading types.

Well said.

The deliberate erosion of language is, in my mind, a ploy in the service of megalomania.

A pointed question...

Are you racist?

A pointed question...

Are you racist?

I am not. I’m a content of character kind of guy.

So... Asians do not exist on your worldview?

Asian is an adjective describing people from Asia. But no I do not believe there is a group of people called “Asians”.

So then, when you use the term "Asian" what on earth are you picking out if not the people from Asia?

I answered already, its not the colour/shade of the skin its about the genetics that inform that physical trait. I use skin colour because its a very easy way to illustrate that there are clear physical differences when someone denies there are differences.
The differences are clear, the distinctions might be less clear depending on the trait. You are right, there might be skin colours that dont indicate clearly a specific “race”, but thats exactly the point. You will be able to tell by the genetics, and other common traits to the group. Its not just skin colour.

So then, when you use the term "Asian" what on earth are you picking out if not the people from Asia?

Yes, I would be picking out people from Asia when I use that term.

So you're picking out a group of people that you do not believe there is?

Asian is an adjective describing people from Asia. But no I do not believe there is a group of people called “Asians”. — NOS4A2

See you just referred to a group of people called asians and then denied there was a group of people called asians. That doesnt make sense.

I answered already, its not the colour/shade of the skin its about the genetics that inform that physical trait. I use skin colour because its a very easy way to illustrate that there are clear physical differences when someone denies there are differences.
The differences are clear, the distinctions might be less clear depending on the trait. You are right, there might be skin colours that dont indicate clearly a specific “race”, but thats exactly the point. You will be able to tell by the genetics, and other common traits to the group. Its not just skin colour.

That’s the point. The differences are not as clear as we often make them out to be. Freckles, for instance, are present on all shades of skin, not just red-heads. Red hair is not just present on fair-skinned Europeans, but can be found in varying frequency around the globe.

So you're picking out a group of people that you do not believe there is?

To clarify, I don’t believe there is a biological group of people called Asians.

Are you saying that people from asia do not exist?

Are you saying that people from asia do not exist?

No, I’m saying there is no biologically distinct group of people called Asians.

So Asians exist... right?

Yes, people from Asia exist.

My contention is one cannot hate Asians unless he believes such a distinct group exists. — NOS4A2