• praxis
    1.7k
    The Hispanic middle class doesn't buy the immigration crap from white liberals.fishfry

    Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. What immigration crap from white liberals? Do you mean things like Daca, for instance?
  • Maw
    1.6k
    And here's my source.
  • NOS4A2
    1.5k


    On the topic of illegal immigration, Trump’s opponents often conflated illegal immigration in particular with immigration in general, and using this as a basis to accuse him (and by extension, his followers) of being anti-immigrant. This was contrary to Trump’s own statements and even his life—Trump was so anti-immigrant he married and had children with two immigrants.

    But this conflation is itself anti-immigrant, because it refused to recognize the difference between those who subvert the laws of the country with those who spend the time and effort to become American. I suspect this conflation will lead to a growing resentment among immigrants.
  • Echarmion
    979
    But this conflation is itself anti-immigrant, because it refused to recognize the difference between those who subvert the laws of the country with those who spend the time and effort to become American. I suspect this conflation will lead to a growing resentment among immigrants.NOS4A2

    That's a weird juxtaposition. Legal immigration to the US is not based on the comparative "time and effort" put in.
  • NOS4A2
    1.5k


    That's a weird juxtaposition. Legal immigration to the US is not based on the comparative "time and effort" put in.

    That’s a weird red herring. It takes much more time and effort to go through the legal process of immigration than to refuse to do so.
  • Echarmion
    979
    That’s a weird red herring. It takes much more time and effort to go through the legal process of immigration than to refuse to do so.NOS4A2

    But the time and effort spend going through the process isn't the reason one is allowed to immigrate.

    And, on the flipside, the reason people enter the US illegally is not to avoid paperwork.
  • NOS4A2
    1.5k


    But the time and effort spend going through the process isn't the reason one is allowed to immigrate.

    And, on the flipside, the reason people enter the US illegally is not to avoid paperwork.

    I never said the time and effort spent going through the process is the reason one is allowed to immigrate. I was merely differentiating between those who break into the country and those who do so legally. The larger point was that to conflate legal and illegal immigration is anti-immigrant.
  • Maw
    1.6k
    Like I say I find argumentum at linkum, or argument by flinging links at each other, tedious.There are sources out there to support pretty much everything. I have in fact read several credible articles supporting the idea that Trump has African-American and Hispanic support. I'd ask you to stipulate that I'm making that statement in good faith and good will. I don't feel like going out on Google and curating the links for you, which you could just dismiss anyway as being not from approved sources, or outright lies or whatever. I'm just choosing to not even start that game.fishfry

    My original response to this was deleted, but I do want you to know this is exceptionally pitiful.
  • Echarmion
    979
    I never said the time and effort spent going through the process is the reason one is allowed to immigrate. I was merely differentiating between those who break into the country and those who do so legally. The larger point was that to conflate legal and illegal immigration is anti-immigrant.NOS4A2

    And I was merely pointing out that making this about "hard working legal immigrants" Vs "illegal immigrants" is misleading, because hard work is not what differentiates the two.
  • NOS4A2
    1.5k


    No one was making it about “hard working legal immigrants" Vs "illegal immigrants". But someone may find point relevant. Who knows?
  • fishfry
    831
    My original response to this was deleted, but I do want you to know this is exceptionally pitiful.Maw

    It's tragic that I'm your only source of information about the world. I regret that I haven't the time to take on such a responsibility.
  • fishfry
    831
    But this conflation is itself anti-immigrant, because it refused to recognize the difference between those who subvert the laws of the country with those who spend the time and effort to become American.NOS4A2

    Yes and no, mostly no. The problem is that the US demand for illegal labor far (far!) exceeds the supply of legal slots available by law.

    One might think ok, pass a law raising the legal immigration quotas to accommodate all the demand for farm laborers and chicken pluckers and suburban lawn cutters, nannies, and housekeepers.

    But that would defeat the purpose. The entire purpose of keeping immigration illegal is so that the workers can't organize, can't complain, can't report being underpaid or abused, can't ask for any of the normal labor protections that American workers take for granted. This is the entire point of the sick, depraved, immoral system.

    The fruits and veggies need to be picked now, and the laborers need the work now. Nobody can wait for the legal queue. The incentives force economically desperate migrants to sneak across the desert to work to feed their families. And the employers are only too happy to have such a supply of below-market labor that can't complain no matter what.

    That is the system that's evolved over the decades. Sure, in a rational world we'd balance immigration quotas with labor demand. But then the workers wouldn't be so cheap anymore.

    The hypocrisy is the entire point of the system. It's a lie to say that illegal crossers are bad people subverting the system. They're responding responding rationally to the incentives presented by a hypocritical and immoral system.
  • fishfry
    831
    Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. What immigration crap from white liberals? Do you mean things like Daca, for instance?praxis

    The people who came in legally and worked to establish themselves resent those who jump the line and are rewarded for it. Isn't that perfectly sensible?
  • praxis
    1.7k


    I understand your belief about the Hispanic middle class, such as it is. The neighborhood I live in is middle class and predominantly Hispanic. I was just curious about the white liberal crap they’re supposedly not buying.
  • Maw
    1.6k
    It's tragic that I'm your only source of information about the world.fishfry

    What does this even mean?
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