• Isaac
    1.3k
    Some who call themselves "atheists" are just as fundy as religious ones.creativesoul

    Of course they are. Claiming that some garbage made up 2000 years ago is not the actual way the world is is not the same as claiming it is. If I claimed there's a flying spaghetti monster in orbit around Mars, you are not being "just as fundy" to say there probably isn't. The two positions are not equal in justification, so being fundamental about one is not the equivalent of being fundamental about the other.
  • unenlightened
    4k
    Are you saying I lied? I don't get it? Maybe you are responding to a different person or thread?ZhouBoTong

    No. I am giving an example of a belief one might have in something that does not exist. Something that might be both more easily understandable and intuitively acceptable. And I am doing this because I have already given a definition of 'god', and 'faith' or 'belief' and 'exist' seem fairly uncontroversial. But having already gone round the definition roundabout in this thread and got bored, I will stick to my word which you quoted and wait for you to elucidate the contradiction before responding further.
  • Terrapin Station
    13.3k
    Fine, I will bite. "I have faith in a god that does not exist" seems nonsensical to me. Can you tell me how you define "faith", "god", and "exist" and then I can see if it starts to make any sense.ZhouBoTong

    The way I read that when I first noticed it was that it amounted to saying, "My belief that god does not exist is epistemically a faith belief."

    "I have faith in a god that does not exist" would be an odd way to say that grammatically (and logically, perhaps--it suggests some sort of weird, Meinongish ontology maybe), but sometimes people say things that are weird grammatically.
  • 180 Proof
    105
    a. 'Lack of belief in g/G' is a faith-belief?

    Bald is a hair-color? :roll:

    z. 'Belief that g/G does not exist' is a faith-belief ...

    ... IFF ~∃g/G is unwarranted.
  • Janus
    8.5k
    Bald is a hair-color? :roll:180 Proof

    Ah, but you're forgetting the distinction between being real and existing! :lol:

    Say I'm bald and my hair is nonetheless real (and it's blonde :joke: ) even though it doesn't exist.

    Similarly God is real, and has real properties such as goodness, all-knowingness and all-powerfulness, even though s/he doesn't exist. :rofl:

    God's Real (as a belief) for the believers, anyway, I guess...
  • 180 Proof
    105


    For clarity's (or precision's) sake, allow me to rephrase:

    Lack of hair [ lack of belief ... ] is a hair-color [ is a belief ]?

    It's an epistemic, not ontic (or ontological), absurdio.
  • TheWillowOfDarkness
    1.9k
    Similarly God is real, and has real properties such goodness, all-knowingness and all-powerfulness, even though s/he doesn't exist. :rofl:Janus

    All the proof of atheism any one will ever need. The reality of God entails non-existence. :cool:
  • Janus
    8.5k
    Lack of hair [ lack of belief ... ] is a hair-color [ is a belief ]?180 Proof

    Not quite what I had in mind but that works, too!

    All the proof of atheism any one will ever need. The reality of God entails non-existence. :cool:TheWillowOfDarkness

    Yeah, nice!
    :grin:
  • Swan
    96
    Well, I never realized it was that easy and quick to cook a Swan. And what a disappointingly thin flavour, I must say.Bartricks

    Keep dreaming... I long flew away. :roll:
  • Bartricks
    1.1k
    Er, no - you realized you couldn't refute the argument. The argument that proves God exists.
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